Nope, no kissing It did feel like he wanted to though if you see what I mean.
What I'm determined won't happen is for us to get back together and for all this to be swept under the carpet. I'm going to need to be careful not to let that happen, he did a sort of mini BD a couple of years back and nothing ever got addressed, and I cannot, will not, go back there again. I need to watch that I'm not so happy to get back together that I just let all that slide. That's what I told my IC, he's there to challenge me and keep me strong. I'm assuming we will get back together again, and that's a big assumption, but all the signals are positive.
Talking of positive signals, I'm going running with a group of friends on a Saturday in a few weeks time. I texted dh and asked if he would fancy joining us for some of it and meeting some of my friends, and he said yes. That's quite big actually, he's always been very dismissive of my friends before, and treated me going off running with my friends as something I did to annoy him (he only took up running when he left btw, before that he said he hated it!) So that's really positive
You are very wise. And it strikes me there's particular and different challenges for the LBS who is a distancer and the one who is a pursuer.
For the distancer, they have to draw close in ways that aren't pursuit while also not forgetting that there are behaviours from their pursuer that need to change if there is to be an R, and drawing close to a pursuer risks making them so happy they don't bother looking at themselves or doing the work.
And for the pursuer, they need to drop the rope and wait for the distancer to come back, deal with the fear that they won't come back, and never get so happy when or if the distancer comes come back that they forget they have their own bottom lines and changes to be made.
I guess I need to reflect on this more for my own situation. I know I've been so focused on getting my needs met in the relationship, and angry that they have not been met, that H had felt his needs and his feelings haven't mattered. So I hope the supportive texts are a way of showing that they do matter to me. AND it is true that he's been very very withdrawn and used remote silence as a punishment and his anger as a 'get away' strategy in ways that just aren't compatible with me wanting to R. So I think I need to be gently supportive, go dark otherwise (so support him, don't talk about me) and see what that looks like. I don't plan on committing long term to a R that looks like that though.
Yes, I think there are unique aspects for both distancers and pursuers. Though if your spouse walks away then they are by the nature of the dynamic distancing. The getting your needs met thing: I think that's a vicious circle regardless of which you are. Both of you are complaining about the other person not meeting your needs, and if you're a pursuer you're criticising and if you're a distancer you're off making new friends or burying yourself in other stuff. So you both have in common that you're focusing on the negative aspects of the other person and not seeing what their needs are, and you both have a need for intimacy which is difficult to ask for and even harder to do in the relationship.
I listened to another interesting podcast today, the relationship experts being interviewed were very open about the work they have to do on themselves (after decades of marriage). She said that she is good at multitasking but then when her husband wants attention he gets hurt that she's not being present for him. Gosh but that rang a bell. Something I need to work on.
A few back and forth texts today, he asked me how my work was going which was very new (he knows I have a deadline I'm going to struggle to meet on Friday). I sent him a funny link to something and he made a joke back. This is nice. Tomorrow I'll ring him, texts are fine but it's nice to talk too, and it's usually him who rings me so I need to make the effort instead.
I wonder if that's why things are tricky with us and why I don't think the usual DB approach would work? I'm not strictly a LBS. Though I'm not a WAH either. I don't think he really did walk away - in that I'd wanted him to leave for a while and he knew it, we'd ended therapy at the end of last summer with me saying I didn't see a way forward and I wanted to talk about separation, and when he left he didn't have a plan to actually move out - he just took a few things and went to his mother's and it was me changing the locks because he was behaving so aggressively and erratically (shouting, drinking in the day, throwing things - coupled with a single incident of violence the summer before that he'd never taken responsibility for) that hugely offended him. His general line - when he's angry - is 'you chucked me out, you evicted me, you made me leave, now you can live with the consequences' so I think his pride is massively hurt. Though I don't regret forcing the issue by changing the locks - the situation was intolerable and he was uninterested in changing and and my setting boundaries around his behaviour made me feel unsafe. Even when he speaks about wanting to come back, he seems really keen to frame it as 'giving me another chance' (not all the time, admittedly, but often) so I think there's some hurt ego and pride there too. And, as much as I miss him and would like to repair things, I am never ever ever going back to the way it was and I think my resolve on that has hurt and shocked him.
Did you phone him? How did it go?
What's the podcast you mentioned. It sounds interesting and I might check it out myself. I am reading a book recommended by my IC that I am finding really useful and interesting - mainly for people who have had childhood trauma and in how to navigate adult relationships in healthy ways. The author is Richard Schwartz if you are interested, though it doesn't sound like it quite applies to you there's a lot of interesting stuff in it about courage and love and intimacy.
Yes I can see that you don't have the typical situation. Perhaps you just sped up the process though, because you clearly were having a turbulent marriage and maybe one or the other of you would have demanded a separation at some stage anyway if things weren't addressed? And I can see how he would have some hurt pride around it not being his decision (a bit like the way the LBS has a huge ego blow at being left, because it makes you feel so completely powerless).
I haven't phoned him yet, he's been busy all afternoon and evening (he hasn't checked our joint email, we get lots of marketing emails because he never ticks the box and so I let him delete them in case he wants to see them), and he did say he was out a few evenings with work so I might try him tomorrow morning instead. We had a few nice texts this morning about different stuff. One of them was him telling me the pub he'd like to go to for dinner after our run on Thursday, so I booked us a table (180, both me offering and me booking). He likes things to be organised in advance (apparently apart from his marital status right now, lol) so it's good to have both of us looking forward to our date.
The podcast: I have 2 I find really useful and listen to a lot, Relationship Alive and Therapist Uncensored, both really good on attachment and safety and I've learnt a lot. I often listen to them on repeat because I really want to make sure the good stuff goes in I've been reading a bunch of books by different people but sometimes I prefer podcasts because you can multitask with them when you're cleaning or whatnot.
Anyway, I'm off to yoga and will also see my friend there for a quick hug too. Namaste.
My bank just rang up, they were sniffing around our account and our chap wanted to know what the monthly amount was for dh's flat, we talked to him a while back about potentially buying a flat so he wanted to know what was going on and whether we were still thinking about it.
I just hate having to lie to people or evade the truth when I never asked to be in this situation. I feel really upset that I've been put in the situation of lying to people all the time. I never lie, I hate lying. I hate dh for putting me through having to lie on top of abandoning me.
I have even lied to my FAMILY about this (they live overseas so this is quite easy, though it does mean I haven't contacted them much at all). Dh said I should talk to them 'to get their support' but I can't because if we R they will HATE him for doing this.
I have lied to dh's family about this (well, evaded their questions). Dh has not mentioned it to his family (they aren't close) though his brother has visited him at the flat so he knows something is wrong and has clearly told the rest of the family. Then MIL patronised the crap out of me and I rang up and cried at dh. Luckily I see MIL once a year tops. And that is too often.
I have never been able to talk openly to the kids about this.
This is all just too much for me today. I'm stressed already with work stuff and this has sent me over the edge.
Just needed to vent so I don't ring up dh and cry my eyes out over it.
Luckily I'm going to see my IC this afternoon. I can have a good cry about it then. In the meantime I need to pull myself together and go to a course.
UGH!
I was feeling pretty good this morning, I didn't ring dh but we texted and I booked ds2's birthday party for a few weeks' time, dh is coming and ds1 and a bunch of friends of both of them. I was feeling quite chirpy and now I feel like this has thrown me into a flashback from when dh first left, all wobbly and flailing and tearful and fearful.
UGH!
Right, venting over. Might practice the 4 5 8 breathing in the car.
I wonder if it is worth practicing this in your IC?
What would a truthful, but non-blaming statement that allows you to be authentic and get the support and acknowledgement you want look like? Maybe imagining the words without having to make a decision if you say them or not would help here.
'DH has decided he wants to live in a flat for a while. He's very stressed at work at the moment and the space is of benefit to both of us. We haven't discussed if this is permanent yet.'
It is worth thinking about the balance between wanting to be loyal and respect your H's privacy and leave the door open to a future R and enabling him to treat you badly and leave the awkward social consequences of the separation at your door and so depriving yourself of the support and close authentic friendship you want or need.
'You'd have to ask H about that. He is living elsewhere for the time being and I am not sure what his plans are,' would be assertive, I think?
I have to be careful myself not to let these practical things turn into anger at H. I have a work thing to book, and I need to travel - it isn't until October but I need to confirm and book soon and I have been putting it off because I don't know what sort of childcare I need, what the picture will be with my living arrangements then, or anything. When I feel pressured about it I can get angry with H, but actually, he probably doesn't know any of the answers to give to me and can't make clear decisions right now either.
Limbo is a hard place to be, and it feels a little less hard when I realise this is the situation I am in, rather than something H is actively doing to me.
I have spoken to very very few people about the situation as I am not sure I am capable of phrasing the sentence in a way that doesn't blame H or make him out to be the bad guy - so I am holding my peace for the time being.
Yes, both of those would have been good answers, I just mumbled something about how I didn't really know what was happening in the future and that if we decide we need a mortgage we'll be in touch. I don't actually owe this bloke an explanation anyway, but I'm so used to being a chatty and open person that having to be constantly on my guard is really difficult. And it threw up so many emotions.
I'm calmer now. I had a cry in the car, I did talk to dh while I was driving (about something car related) but waited until I'd calmed down a bit and I didn't mention the phone call. It really won't help. You're right, being angry at dh isn't of any use, even if it is understandable. I'd just got to a place where I was ok about not thinking about the future too much, and now this just reminded me that the future isn't certain, and that was super hard to be confronted with. And you're right about it not being dh's fault either, I'm sure if he was sure either way he would be letting me know about it.
Patience. It's a work in progress. As is forgiveness and emotional control. I'd best get to my IC, thanks for the pep talk
I find the uncertainty of the future really hard too. What helps is remembering that I am actually uncertain myself. I am extremely ambivalent about my marriage and I don't want what H has on offer right now. I am working towards resilience and independence and when I judge it is the right time for me to initiate D, if ever, I am free to do that. And if I judge it is right for me to give this more time, I am free to do that too - and that's my own decision. It makes me feel a bit more focused on the bits of this I can control.
Yes, good point. And we can only control our part of it anyway. I choose to stay married though and to work on myself and hope dh continues working on himself and together we work on our relationship. Today I actually thought that perhaps whatever it is dh is waiting for proof of might be proof that he can be a better person in our marriage, not so much that he was testing me and my capacity to change. And then I thought that actually I wouldn't want him moving back in immediately anyway, I would want to take it slowly, spend more time together and increase that over time to make sure we cement better habits of behaviour towards each other. Hmm, something to consider.
Useful session with IC, I didn't even get to today's blip because I was so busy telling him about all the GOOD things which happened to me and with dh last week. It reminded me that today was just a blip and I'm much stronger now and even though I had a good cry it was only half an hour of wobbliness rather than days or weeks.
I have stuff to consider about my tendency to run away when I get triggered and how I can change that and ask for what I need. In the meantime I'm looking forward to our date tomorrow night.
It did feel like he wanted to though if you see what I mean. 