Dillydaf - I read your sitch and I too see similarities.
You have read some of my sitch and yes, I own up to being the distancer now and throughout our M. However, my journey has been long and painful. It is now a over a year post BD. Immediately after BD and in the months to follow I was a shell of a person. Broken and naked on the floor (figuratively, and sometimes literally) I opened my soul to him. I told him things about my childhood that I had kept hidden, wounds long kept in the dark, in the hopes that this would help him understand who I am. I went full transparency and made a conscious effort to be more affectionate and open with him. The former fell on deaf ears, in fact he used (and continues to use) this against me whenever I allow an R conversation ("YOU are really SCREWED up and that's why YOU act like this") and the latter, well that was too little too late. Every advance I made was rejected, twisted and turned into a failing. I am not proud of some of those moments. So, now, months and months after, those emotions still simmer under the surface, ready to bubble up and take over. I am healing. But I am not yet healed.
Yorkie - the "cutting it fine" scene would have played very differently a year ago. Back then he would not have left it at that. It would have been "Why are you always late?", "Don't you care about the children's education", "Teacher is probably really annoyed at us", "This will reflect badly on D9", "what's the point of paying so much money for private school when you can't even be bothered" ... yada yada yada ... the world is about to end. Meanwhile, I would have been apologizing profusely, getting defensive and feeling smaller and smaller. Also, I would not have been late because I was sitting in Costa's having a coffee and timing it so that I wasn't early (which is what happened). The only reason I would have been late was because there were problems with the train. But it still would have been my fault. He would have said "Why didn't you leave work early and give yourself more time". So yes, the "cutting it fine" as passive aggressive and sarcastic. But at least it wasn't bullying.
I probably didn't phrase it right when I said "I can't face him anymore". I think it is simply that I am happier when I am not with him. I am (by all accounts) charming and easy to be around. I laugh easily and I smile a lot. When I am with him this is not the person I am. I am on edge, waiting for the next accusation or sarcastic remar. Anyone else, I would simply laugh off a sarcastic comment, or respond back with some type of banter. But not him. I look at him and then turn away. In the months between BD and him MO (about 6 months in total) he treated me like I didn't exist. He would walk out of the room, avoid eye contact, respond with "yep", "fine" or "no", or talk to me through someone else. This is what I now do. He engages in conversation (always about the children) and I respond with "yep", "fine" or "no". I walk out of the room if he walks in. I cut conversations short because I am waiting for the rub. I feel guilty for doing this because the table has turned, and I know what it is like to be on that side. He does not want to come back (as far as I can see) but he wants to be friends, or at least civil co-parents.
D12 being so messed up, going away on our annual holiday without me, seeing those photos, it is all too much right now.
I know that he is unhappy about me getting on with my life. I can see it in his eyes. In the way he avoids conversations which are directly about me or in the way he phrases texts and emails "Are you coming back tonight as I need to come round and pick up X" or " Assume you want to have the kids this weekend" or "I tried to call but you didn't pick up again". I know the thoughts that are simmering under the surface with him. I know that it would not take a lot for those thoughts to come out if I open up and allow myself to engage. He wants to know. He wants to confront me. I do not want to be confronted because I will be small and silent once again or trying desperately to defend myself.
Hi FS. I agree with Ovrrnbw. I do think your H is trying to connect but without commitment. I feel for you. You have been in this annoying limbo for awhile now. He seems to give you just enough to keep hope alive so that you won’t truly move on. Maybe you are getting closer to where you are dropping the rope in order to truly save yourself? Maybe that would be the push he needs to wake up, IDK. Only you can figure that out. I admire your strength. I think if I were you, I would have tried to have an R talk by now but I’ve never really been a patient person when it comes to affairs of the heart. Anyway...I am confident you will figure out what to do and when to do it. In the meantime...status quo. (((HUGS)))
Ovrr - I think our posts must have crossed over so I didn't see yours when I responded. I know he wants to connect, if only because I am the mother of our children and he loves them dearly. I just can't do it. I feel the knot in my stomach and the pain in my chest. He wanted me to react to those photos the way his mother would have done. With lots of ooohs and ahhhs and don't you all look lovely, asking lots of questions along the way. I couldn't do it. I looked at them, felt the emotions about to erupt, pushed them back down, smiled and went to make myself a cup of tea.
You are right. I cannot control him. So it is easier not to be with him. Perhaps this is pushing him further away. IDK. I can charm the pants of a stranger but I can't even be civil to my H.
In any case, energies positively pointed in different directions. I am taking the kids into London on Saturday to watch a show and am going out next week to a comedy club with one of the mums.
DV - I don't know if he gives me hope. He withholds anything which might be taken to be 'interest' in me as a person. No questions about me, my life or my work. I am the mother of his children, the babysitter, the driver, the cook and person who keeps a roof over their head, that is someone he needs to maintain a 'civil' relationship with. In the past we tried to be a family - sitting across from each other at dinner, smiling and making small talk about the weather. But even then, I wanted to shake him and say "What are you doing?!?!?". It ended up hurting me so pulled back and he has responded by not inviting me. He still spends an ordinate amount of time at the house but never when I am here. I set such a cold temperature that he leaves quickly when I am home.
I am not in any way shape or form spinning. I have a fullish life and I am for the most part happy. I will go on, as I have been, muddling my way through, trying to keep my head and my heart focused on a positive future, and in the meantime, trying to cause as little harm as possible.
FS: your story about opening up after BD made me feel so sad for you. That must have felt awful. But maybe you should consider his response in terms of the timing of it? For years and years your wife has distanced and then you have enough and do something about it and then suddenly this huge massive dump of vulnerabilities and desperation and sadness you've hidden for so long is blurted out. That must have been overwhelming for him, don't you think? That must have scared him. I know if I throw an emotional desperate wobbly that my dh says I scare him, and that's nothing like the amount you must have poured out to your dh. So perhaps instead of feeling sorry for yourself (which you are perfectly entitled to do) you might try seeing his perspective? I understand how painful and humiliating it must have been for you for him to behave that way, but perhaps you could assume the best of his reponse instead of the worst?
I have a question for you: how are you going to reconnect with your husband if you are hiding from him? You're protecting yourself, which keeps you from hurt, but I can't see how that will grow your relationship together. I think you're like me and you need to stop distancing if you're going to stand a chance. He's spent years asking to see the real you, if you want to save your marriage then you need to give him a peek. Are you in counselling? I can really recommend it, I've found it very useful. You could address some of those childhood wounds, because even if you end up divorcing you're going to have to sort this out for a future relationship.
Finally, I see so many parallels in our marriages. For years dh was critical, attacking, would give me the silent treatment and treated me terribly. I assumed the worst of him, and he assumed the worst of me. It wasn't healthy. But I was listening to a podcast recently and someone said that defence is a form of attack. A lightbulb went on for me. I was defending myself from attack and it aggravated the situation! I was contributing to the problem! Another thing I heard was that behind every criticism is an unmet need. What if instead of feeling hurt by the criticism I could try to understand what my husband needed (and was asking for in a destructive way)? I'm not sure to what extent I could have changed the dynamic, but it changed the way I thought about his behaviour.
Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I see plenty of hope for your marriage and if you can warm the temperature up then maybe things will start to improve...
Dilly - Yes, my sudden vulnerability would have been overwhelming for him. But to be honest, I don't think anything I could have done would have helped the situation at the time. He was not in a good place. Everything I said and did was twisted and thrown back at me. Retreat - I was cold and heartless, show emotion - I was clingy. He needed space to work himself out. Yes, we had problems, but he was (is?) depressed and, at risk of sounding like I am looking for excuses, he was (is?) having a MLC. Nothing I said or did was going to change that.
Now, a year in and I know he no longer sees me as the architect of all that is wrong in his life. However, my H is naturally suspicious and critical of people. Add to that he is so use to blaming me for things that it is now his natural go to. I can see the flick of anger in his eyes and his attempts to suppress it (out of guilt, out of the need to keep the peace, out of not wanting a confrontation) but it is still definitely there. Like an angry ghost ready to come out at any minute. A sudden change in his body language. This could be due to anything - my being late home, my not having any clean shirts ironed for the girls, my leaving washing in the washing machine. A side comment "how long has this washing been in here?" followed by a huff. I ignore it all. I walk away. Explanations fall on deaf ears. It would only lead to "the clothes will be ruined", "now I am going to have to iron it when I get in", "I don't have time for this", "why can't you ever be on time".
I know what he is actually angry at .. it is my having a life which does not include him. It is his loss of control and the fact that he cannot do anything about it. He wants to know and he can't and this is where the anger now stems from. The passive aggression today (unlike at BD) tend to focus on my GAL and how this means not "being with the children".
I will open up again when I no longer see the resentment. Until then, I know that he would only use it against me.
My GAL this weekend did not go to plan. When I picked up D9 from after school club on Friday she was asleep on the children's sofa. This is unusual as it was only 5:00 and D9 is normally a whirl of energy. She was complaining of tiredness and a sore throat all the way home.
On Sat we had to cancel netball (both D9 and D12 were feeling unwell). I also had to cancel our trip into London to watch a show. It was raining and thought not ideal for the sore throats. We went into town instead, had lunch and watched a film. We then went home and cuddled on the sofa and watched TV. By Sunday D12 was feeling better but D9 had completed lost her voice. Temperature all night, coughing and generally being very very unwell. So, another day of cancelled plans replaced by more cuddling on the sofa.
Despite doing not much, we had a really nice weekend. I even saw D12 smile ones or twice and there was even some real genuine laughter. I do not know how long it's been since I heard D12 laughing properly.
My MIL has been different lately. She sent a text Saturday morning asking if the girls wanted to go round hers for Sunday lunch. She added "You are welcome to come too" at the end. I had already organized a play date for D9 on Sunday so said we had plans Sunday afternoon. She then responded about taking them out for breakfast. I said sure. I texted her Sunday morning to say that D9 was unwell and it might be better if she came round instead. MIL suffers from everything going round so said she would give it a miss. This might not sound like much, but the texts were very short and 'detached'. The last couple of times I've seen her (to drop off our dog) she has made a point of saying before hand (by text) "I will just drop her off and won't stop as I am running late". Might be nothing, but suspect she is now finding the whole sitch awkward. I doubt very much she feels stuck in the middle (neither of us talk about our 'lives' with her) but she probably feels bad about it all.
In the interest of 'co-parenting' I did send H a text Friday night saying what time D9 and D12 were playing netball if he wanted to come watch (he had said he was not working all weekend). He said he had taken on an extra flight sat and wouldn't be able to watch and, in the same text, and unasked, told me he wouldn't be able to see them sunday either as was watching football. Not sure football takes all day, but I am not going to waste any energy on it.
Hello FlyingSolo. I just wanted to say hello and check into your thread. I have no advice or suggestions but I just wanted to let you know I was reading and learning fro you. I hope your girls are feeling better. I have a sick child in the house at the moment and it's tiring.
FS: I hope your kids are better now, it actually sounds like a lovely way to spend a weekend I too think my dh is having a MLC and has taken it out on me. It's extraordinarily difficult.
One thing I've been thinking about recently is the whole GAL thing. I feel like I've always been a very busy person and so I was GAL before this whole thing started. And dh always really resented me for that. I wonder how much I used GAL to distance him though? Not deliberately but it is so easy to focus on other people instead of your husband, especially if your husband seems angry and critical of you. Anyway, now dh knows he has no right now to criticise me for GAL but he does take an interest and I tell him what I'm up to, and sometimes I try to include him (like with the talk I'm doing tomorrow). New is good, in my book. I'm not saying that you are similar in any way, but it's something I've been pondering a lot. I told my IC I was GAL and he said 'but you already have a life, a very full one'. And I realised that was so true. So my GAL is trying new stuff and meeting new people and going new places. In a funny way it does include dh because our weekly dates are places and activities I've not been to or done before. Hmm, I'd not thought about that so positively before! Anyway, sorry to mull over things on your thread, I just thought as a distancer I'd mention it. Incidentally I listened to a podcast recently and they called distancers 'blue' and pursuers 'red'. And the aim is to be 'green' ie in the middle. I found this really interesting.
FS... sorry to hear about your kids feeling sick. Makes for a boring weekend for everyone but I am sure they very much enjoyed the cuddles. Hope D9 feels better soon. Kids tend to bounce back better then us adults so hopefully you don’t catch it. (((HUGS)))
I too think my dh is having a MLC and has taken it out on me. It's extraordinarily difficult.