The bomb woke me up, but she still won't talk

[lusa]

You know, Lusa, when we say no R talk, we don't mean to imply that you are to NEVER speak of the relationship again. We stress "no R talk" so much, I guess people think it is off the table even if they are trying to reconcile. However, I think your problem here is that you don't know where the MR stands. Like some other board members, you are stuck in limbo b/c you don't feel like it is really a reconciliation, but you are in the MBR and having sex.....and she's being nicer.

I have followed the rules really well and the no R talk in particular has been really helpful up until the point where I should have realised it was time to bring it up. If she’d have made any reference to where the MR stands I would have taken it as my opening to have the R talk, but she just kept quiet.

If you have waited on your W to bring up the things you feel need to be discussed.......she may NEVER go there. Why? B/c most WW's don't desire to talk about their betraying, lying, deceitful, sneaky, unfaithful, backstabbing, selfish, disrespectful, rebellious, resentful.........(do I need to go on?)..........wayward behavior. She doesn't have a problem talking about how you made mistakes in the past, but she doesn't want to have her's pointed out. I'm just saying that after nearly a year, and you moved successfully into the MBR.........and having sex.........don't you feel there has been some point in time that the elephant in the room should have been addressed?

I thought that after all she had done and how we were getting on that she would eventually want to bring this up so we can move on. I understand now that this isn’t going to happen and why. I’m sick of living in Limbo and obviously need to address the elephant in the room. I am ashamed I haven’t brought this up before but was scared of doing it in the wrong way, I could really do with some advice on how to approach it.

Maybe I haven't read far enough yet, so have you told her what you would need in order to really reconcile? If not, then IMHO, it's as if you are hanging suspended between heaven and hell. IDK......it's just me wondering if that is okay with you.

I haven’t told her what I will need to really reconcile, I do feel that I am hanging suspended between heaven and hell and no it is definitely not ok with me to stay like this.

I was asked to give my thoughts on another similar sitch, and afterwards, I have decided that person had rather keep things suspended rather than follow the suggestions given. I also saw someone who was set in their ways for many years, and just between us......I felt like that was the problem for not following the advice. Anyway......I don't want to see this MR stay in the condition until both people are too set in their ways to change.

Thank you for your concern, I can see the danger of this happening and I am ready to do whatever it takes to stop it. I will not be like the person who would rather keep things suspended than follow the suggestions or stay set in my ways rather than change things. I will be scared but I know I will just have to do it scared.

Another reason I believe it is important to know where the relationships stands at the point, is so you will know whether or not to continue following the 37 rules. Once the couple reconciles and is piecing the M back together, the 37 rules are put aside. I have a thread (with BluWave contributing) to those things to follow during Piecing. But currently, you can't really define your MR as in Piecing, can you? Has your WW told you she no longer wants to end the M, or get a D or whatever she may have originally said?

I have read that very interesting thread, thank you to you and BluWave. It’s quite an eye opener to see that our successful joint commitment to R will only lead to the long difficult work of piecing. I can’t define my MR as in piecing as we haven’t discussed R, I haven’t given her my stipulations and she hasn’t verbally gone back on any of the things she has said at BD and since. Although her actions and behaviour look like she wants to R and has changed her mind on these things she hasn’t actually told me anything.

No wonder my WW doesn't want to talk or consider R, preferring to just rug-sweep and pretend.
It is because she is still deeply in love with OM, and unfortunately as this is her ex H, with shared history I don't think she's ever going to get over it.
She writes notes before talking to him, I've seen a few before and posted them here. Unfortunately, I snooped yesterday and found another note, they are always around cutting off contact, and this is in response to cutting off contact.

This is not just another man. it's her XH. Do they have children together? You have children with her, and she's willing to wait till they leave home to reunite with her XH? That's not love, that's a fantasy! If she went back to him, she'd want you as her OM.

They married about 20 years ago. They had no children and the marriage only lasted a couple of years, due to him having multiple A’s treating her very badly including violence and in the end being admitted to a psyche unit for serious mental difficulties, I think schizophrenia. He then abandoned her and she filed for D on that basis. He went back to his country and still lives over 5,000 miles away from us.

I met her the week her D was finalised, and we have been together 17 years with 2 beautiful children. I believe from what I’ve read that her fantasy is now to reunite with him when the kids have left. She has been living this fantasy in her EA for the last 3 years with him and is now dealing with withdrawals due to her recent decision to temporary cut off contact.

I have been thinking about this for a long time and so finally said that I can't make decisions on these sort of things when we haven't discussed reconciling and she hasn't committed to doing what she can to make things work.
She responded with something along the lines of we are getting on much better so I reiterated that the verbal commitment from her and our joint decision to R will have to come before any other discussions on our future. She made it clear she understood so I am really pleased I finally got this point said after all this time.

Great! But you can't leave it there. Has she made a verbal commitment? If so, hold her to it by requiring that both of you attend therapy for couples dealing with emotional affair with previous spouses. I mean, I'm sure other things will be addressed, but XH is the ELEPHANT.

I am ready to request her verbal commitment and then explain it what it will entail. I am just not sure how to say it, what to say if she refuses etc. One way or another this huge elephant needs addressing once and for all regardless of the consequences.

So actually, most of this is work she will have to do. Your part is enforcing those things that aren't considered as her feelings. This is your life. You have a say about it. Why would keep closed lip about her cheating and her pretending everything was simply honky-dory? She blamed everything on YOU. Isn't that why you were left......b/c you were under the assumption you were the problem? To this day, have you not opened your mouth about the real issue....which was her EA? I'm not suggesting you did not have things to change about yourself, but the TRUTH behind the split, was b/c of her emotional connection to her XH. I'm telling you as a former WW, if you wait around for her to voluntarily confess it was not you, but rather b/c she was having an EA with her XH, you may never see the day.
The WW will blame the H as long as she can get away with it. So far, you are the reason she's getting away with it.

This is exactly what I needed to hear, thank you. I have no excuses except fear and not knowing where our MR stands. I realise I could be waiting forever and instead need to take action now.
I first found out about her EA a year ago shortly after I had moved out as she had duped me into thinking it was my fault. She refused to talk to me about it and even said things like “I can talk to who I want”, “you can’t control me” etc. I felt my only options were to wait or file.
My recent discovery that the EA was happening for years before BD has helped me realise, I have been duped. Last time I brought it up she looked me in the eyes and denied it. I am sure she will do anything she can to avoid admitting this, by denying, deflecting, minimising etc.

Those are my thoughts, FWIW. If you decide to address the EA, I'm sure the board can help you put together a plan.

“FWIW” your thoughts feel like an angel’s words sent to me in my time of need. I have definitely decided to address the EA I just need to work out how.
I will tell her I want to talk and that I know how long the EA has been going on, how I was duped, how deep she got involved with him and I am at the point where I am completely ready to let her go.
Thank you for your advice on my list I have revised it as follows, I will tell her I expect her to:

Verbally commit to do everything she can to reconcile with me and save this MR

Send a permanent end message to him with me watching through her secret FB account with me watching whilst she then deletes the account.

Agree to my chosen transparency plan.

Attend M/C of my choice where we will address her EA, how she can help me rebuild trust and how we can start piecing.

I need to be prepared for her to continually deny everything or refuse to comply. I think my only choice will be to issue the ultimatum that she does all this or I file for D on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour.
Any advice from the board on this plan will be very much appreciated.

Thanks