Not sure if this is going to work ... originally posted on your old thread, but got a topic locked message ... ------- Self forgiveness is a difficult one. You have to first strip away the many layers of narrative that we overlay to protect ourselves from ourselves. I am not there yet. There are times when protecting my own ego stops me from getting to the nut of it.
"I did A, because he did B".
A is self awareness B is self preservation.
"I became cold and detached because he was critical and controlling" or "I neglected our MR because I was focused on being a mother". I have to stop at "I became cold and detached" and "I neglected our MR". Sometimes I manage it ... sometimes a little voice whispers "... because he was a [censored]".
Yes, my H is controlling, overly critical, suspicious and judgemental. Just like your H is a coward for living two lives instead of trying to fix the one he had. They both preferred to wipe away the past and start again with a blank sheet instead of doing the work. They took the easy way out (though they both probably know now there is no easy way, no blank slate, with kids).
But we can't control our Hs and we can't change the past.
All I have is the knowledge that "I am cold and detached", "I am dismissive and can make people feel inadequate" and "I neglected our MR". This I can control. This I can change.
Anyway, random thoughts. My exBF visited with my kids and I the other day. He mentioned I can be negative about my H infront of the kids - nothing major like "he is a [censored]" but side comments like "he insists on a TV in EVERY room" when I was showing my exBF around the house. I have normalised H bashing to the point it doesn't seem like H bashing. I still have some ways to go it seems.
But, that we are willing to look says something about how far we have come. Most people never have that desire to truly know themselves.
Dejavu, it seems forgiveness can mean different things. I personally don't feel inclined to forgive my husband because he's not sorry for what he's done and he hasn't apologized. It's admirable though how you're so early in your situation and you're trying so hard to accept and forgive. There's a fine line to walk between forgiving to help yourself move on and forgiving to the point where the forgive-ee takes it as a green light to exploit you further. It's all so complicated.
FS - I think I can cop to being dismissive at times...and I definitely neglect our MR. Of course there are a thousand reasons...but no real excuses. I have to find a way to make my peace with that. As always...a work in progress.
Nicole - From what I’ve read about your H, I am not surprised you aren’t feeling very forgiving towards him. He is unbelievably arrogant in the way that he has treated you. My H, on the other hand, has been pretty decent to me all things considered. He has had flashes of brutal and thoughtless behaviour - the blow up over his made-up date of separation, his request that I hurry things along so he can buy a property he wants, his characterization of our marriage as something that is “hanging over his head”, telling his mom that having 50% parents will be “good for them” [translation - “good for me”], etc... but generally he has been fair with respect to our financial settlement and he has been really good to our kids and helpful when it comes to driving them places even when they are technically with me. Honestly, I think FS is right. His biggest offence is that he is a coward and it led him to digging a hole so deep he could not see any other way out of it except to cut and run. He can’t escape himself however. If he is going to be the “good person” he says he is trying to be, sooner or later, he will have to do the work.
Sigh... my S11 just came to tell me that he thinks he might be depressed. I asked why and he tells me that he doesn’t want to hurt his dad’s feelings by telling him that he doesn’t want to go to his house and he just wants to be at home. I just hugged him and told him it will be better when dad buys his new house and he has his own room. He then said that he doesn’t want to have to miss me. Heart...break...how is this my life?
At BD, I thought I did forgive my W and that I was capable of it. Later I found out this was a feeling that I am not prepared to deal with yet. It's hard for me to forgive my W after having a moment of clarity. I do know I need to forgive myself because I was naïve.
There is a time and place for forgiveness and right now, that feeling is best left buried somewhere. I don't think I need to forgive W to move forward. The opposite is also true in that I don't need to resent W to move forward.
I will allow myself time to feel both and be honest about it.
My W hasn't earned forgiveness and the first step I need for that is acknowledgement of what she did. She hasn't and most likely will never admit to what she is doing. As an adult, a H with faults, I can accept a woman who is imperfect, maybe someone who is trying. I don't think I can accept a woman who neglects the family over her own personal interests. I don't think I can accept a woman who puts another man over her children.
I yearn for the comfort of my W. I know how this can make someone weak and vulnerable. I choose to stand and its tough and can be lonely. My W will never see this hurt. She will never face it.
Like love is, forgiveness is a choice. With both, you need to put effort into it to make it work. I don't think its a switch I can turn on or turn off. It's part of a process. I think part of loving someone who loves you back requires forgiveness as part of that process.
If I were to ever be in recon, I'd need to dig up those feelings and deal with them. For now, I don't see a need, but I am not faced with a lot of internalizing these emotions so maybe it's just easier for me, choosing to not think too much into it for the moment.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
Like love is, forgiveness is a choice. With both, you need to put effort into it to make it work. I don't think its a switch I can turn on or turn off. It's part of a process. I think part of loving someone who loves you back requires forgiveness as part of that process.
Yes. It is work and there are some days when I feel less forgiving than others but forgiveness is still the goal.Does my H deserve my forgiveness? Probably not but I want him to have it anyway. Again...it isn't for him. It is for me and even more so, it is for my kids. They are watching every interaction between their dad and I...my son, in particular. I need them to see that their mom is okay and I don't think that is what they will see if I am hanging on to anger and resentment.
Originally Posted by Adam04
I yearn for the comfort of my W. I know how this can make someone weak and vulnerable. I choose to stand and its tough and can be lonely. My W will never see this hurt. She will never face it.
I can so relate to this Adam. It is strange that I think of my H as a source of comfort because the reality is that he has not been that for me for a very long time. Once again, my brain and my heart are at odds on this.
Like love is, forgiveness is a choice. With both, you need to put effort into it to make it work. I don't think its a switch I can turn on or turn off. It's part of a process. I think part of loving someone who loves you back requires forgiveness as part of that process.
My LMFT brought something like this up before we closed on Monday.
He talked about how love is a choice, ultimately. Feelings of love are part of the ‘information’ that we use to make decisions, but he reiterated that using feelings to make major life decisions like divorce is not a good idea, to put it mildly.
Originally Posted by Adam04
I yearn for the comfort of my W. I know how this can make someone weak and vulnerable. I choose to stand and its tough and can be lonely. My W will never see this hurt. She will never face it.
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I can so relate to this Adam. It is strange that I think of my H as a source of comfort because the reality is that he has not been that for me for a very long time. Once again, my brain and my heart are at odds on this.
I’ve taken some 2x4s on this in my thread that I need to respond to; I go back and forth.
What I need to permanently realize (I’m there at times depending on my mood) is that W has changed, and that I should not rely on her like that. Some days that thought is hard to reconcile; some days it’s really easy. But I’ve noticed that within myself it’s getting easier to not rely on her as much.
I believe I know where you are coming from with being genuine in your interactions. Just saying don't beat yourself up thinking you have to forgive so you don't resent. We are all full of emotions. As people say here you don't have to be BFF but you can be friendly with them. For me, it's the emotional control. I commend you for tackling this aspect of it early on. I can't sort out all my feelings and I have a hard time finding the right words. You mentioned your work and talking to others about these sorts of things right? I think this puts you farther down the road so I'm going to get there in my own time.
Talking about resentment, forgiveness, our actions and the optics of what others see. Whether you forgive or resent your WAS, it is important to treat them with respect. You are right , your children will see this, but they won't know your feelings unless you tell them. Also like Nicol said, you can display certain behavior for the kids but don't let that be a green light for someone who is already disrespecting you, they will not see it the same as children. What is that saying to not mistaken your kindness?
I can also understand if things were finite and a final decision was to be at peace and forgive. I made a comment somewhere else about this as if between me and God I'll forgive everyone as I pass. But with children involved and where we may have to reinforce or re-establish boundaries to protect ourselves while still dealing with the WAS, it makes me think about what that forgiveness looks like, especially if they keep pushing their limits and one keeps on forgiving them.
I don't mean to talk you down, I would love to forgive and move on. I think between W and I we have a lot of road to cover before getting to a good spot for that.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
Thank you Bo and Adam. I appreciate your support. I wish I had all of my feelings sorted out. I know how I want to feel. I know that I want to get past this. I know it is going to take time. I start out each day with forgiveness, peace and love as my goal. I have to be honest in saying that I don’t always get there. When I don’t, I try not to beat myself up but it is tough. I still miss my H and I can’t seem to shake this burning feeling in my chest whenever I let myself feel the loss. Next week it will be five months since BD. In some ways, it feels like a lifetime ago and in other ways, like it happened only yesterday.
My kids head off to their dad’s after school tomorrow and I won’t see them until Monday after school. My son was clinging to me for a bit tonight... telling me that he is going to miss me too much and just wants to stay at home. I was super upbeat and told him that wherever he is, I am still in his heart and he is always in mine and that it is important he gets time with his dad. He seemed to like that answer and found it comforting. I wish I did. Inside my heart was breaking. I hate that my kids have to deal with this...it is hard not to feel like I have failed them.
Today is transition day when my kids go to their dad's for the weekend. As per usual, my son was in tears this morning about having to leave his home and me and saying he is going to miss me too much. So this morning, I texted my H to let him know that S11 was upset and asked him to make sure our D11 had the kids' cell phone so I could call him this evening. H texts back a super cheerful response "Of course we'll make it work" with exclamation marks. He then texts me later to tell me S11 always has fun and it is just an "S11's change of venue" issue" as if transitions are just difficult for S11 in general. Could not let that go. Just said that it is not just a transition...it is having to leave his home to go to a house where his dad lives with another family and another woman ("roommate") who is not his mom. I also said that yes, he is sensitive, but it doesn't make his feelings and thoughts any less valid and that I know he (H) wants this to be as easy for the kids as it is for him but that is just not the case. So, of course, I feel bad that I reacted that way and apologized. I know it hurts him too. He texted back right away and said he would work with him lots this weekend. Missed the mark this morning on peace and forgiveness I guess. I really wish I could just run away for a couple months and get my head and my heart in alignment once and for all.
