DV - thank you. I agreed with D12 this morning that she could have her phone today to delete anything she did not want me to see on the condition that going forward, she give her code to her dad and I and that we could look at it at any time. I felt that this way she felt she had some control over what was happening and that I was putting trust in her to do the right thing. She seemed happy with this. I doubt very much there is anything too serious on there. My H looked at the account when he was snooping on her phone and didn't find anything but bad language and some confused sexual references (which strikes me as more likely to be written by actual children then adults pretending to be children). In any case, she was smiling again when I handed her her phone. It all went a bit pear shaped as just before we left she decided to fill her water bottle with strawberry water and it overflowed straight into a drawer. I didn't lose my temper, tried to wipe it up as best as I could and said she needed to take more care. unfortunately, that one statement was enough to get her back up and she went into silent mode again. From the few conversations I've had with her she feels like she is always being attacked (by everyone not just me) and that she can't seem to do anything right. Disciplining, I suspect, will be a difficult balance going forward
I have had a day to let my emotions subside - though am glad I did not talk to him today as would definitely have said something I would now be regretting. Unfortunately, I am sure I came across as cold and unemotional. But that's better I guess then going on the attack (which is what would have happened).
I think you handled the situation with D12 brilliantly FS. You are a really, really good mom and you are going to foster a fantastic lifelong relationship with them. You are able to put yourself in their place and figure out what it is they need from you. That’s a skill not all parents have unfortunately. Ninety per cent of the kids I see have parents who ascribe to the crime and punishment model of parenting which just does not work. One exercise I have parents do is to think about the best and worst boss they ever had and then to write down the attributes of each. I then ask them to read each list, imagine they are their kids and then ask themselves which list their kids would say most describes them. It is an eye opening exercise for most, to say the least.
When I was in high school, I had a number of friends who had really strict rules at home... including a curfew that was non-negotiable. These friends spent so much energy trying to get around these rules, it was ridiculous. They are also the friends who took the biggest risks and drank way too much in our first year of university.
My parents, on the other hand, had what I would call guidelines. There was an unspoken expectation of respectful behaviour that I learned through role modelling. No matter what, my parents were always respectful of each other and of me and my siblings. This underlying expectation of respect was the baseline for everything so I couldn’t really tell you what the “rules” were in my house. Everything was negotiable and I don’t remember ever getting into a power struggle with my parents. What I do remember, however, is just how important it was to me that I live up to the trust they had in me. I wasn’t a perfectly behaved kid but I HATED to disappoint my parents and I never went through a rebellious phase because they didn’t give me anything to rebel against. And I was rarely consequenced for anything because they never made themselves the problem and got in between me and my conscience. I pray that me and my H can do the same with our kids. It is going to be tougher with the divorce but still possible if we can have a good relationship. I always keep in mind something a child psychiatrist once said to me... He said, “DV...You don’t have to be a perfect parent, there is no such thing...you just have to be good enough.” Anyway... blah, blah, blah... I had been doing a lot of stream of consciousness writing today...lol.
Glad you were able to take some time to let your emotions subside. I have not done that enough, I’m afraid. (((HUGS)))
AS - sorry I wrote this yesterday, but forgot to click submit. Thank you for your input. The 2x4 is appreciated.
What you say is true. I was in full rant mode yesterday morning. It is difficult to see past my own feelings when I am like that. This is why I could not talk to him yesterday. Still can't if I am honest. I can count how many times on one hand when I have fully lost control of my emotions throughout our marriage, and again, only a handful of times in the last year. This time, I had the benefit of not being in his company when I lost it and have had time to regain some perspective. I don't think I am ready to talk to him yet, there is still some anger, there, but it has subsided a little.
I know that D12 is going through her own transition. She has seen a lot of change this year and not all of it to do with her parents separating. Being a teenager girl, and probably a teenage boy, means for the first time you really start to begin to compare yourself to your peers and undoubtedly find yourself falling short. Not pretty enough, not smart enough, not rich enough, not funny enough, just not enough. This is normal. I get that. But it is not normal to cry all the time. To have such terrible pains in your stomach that you can't go to school. To my H's credit he is very very concerned about her. He wasn't at the start, but he now recognised that something is wrong with her. He just can't face the fact, that maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with him leaving.
Don't get me wrong, our marriage was broken, but he never gave us a chance to fix it. That is what I can't forgive. We were broken, and yes, we broke us. Not him, not me, but we. I own my part in this. But he didn't just leave, he ran. Not just from me, but from all of us. Then the first time he was in that flat on his own, he realised what he had given up and doubled down on being a dad. I respect him for this. But, in the process of realising that he still loved our girls, he caused so much damage. His actions say he knows that he has hurt them, but his words still defer responsibility.
Re the hanging out at the house. He has never been at the house for that long without someone else being here. Normally the children are with him, or he comes to walk the dog and is only here for half an hour.
But two days now he has been here for a lengthy time on his own so, yes, the conversation needs to be had. I need to think about how I am going to have that conversation. One of things I own is that I was the one who escalated our sitch. Out of anger or hurt I was the one who suggested he MO, not once, but five times. Four of those times he agreed, then changed his mind. He was still unsure then and treating me badly and I know if I had just given him space, then thing could have been different. But I would push, and then he would retreat (by retreat I mean he would pull away from my touch, go on the attack, or just plain ignore me) and of feelings of rejection or hurt, I would escalate again. So, in the pat six months have taken a passive stance. I have let it play out without fighting, unless it is too do with the kids, and quietly gotten on with my life. But, passive and doormat are very closely related. It is a fine line, and the hanging out at the house has crossed that.
I am going away for a week next week. The only time I will see him before then is for 10 mins when he comes to pick up the children in the morning. When he comes back there is a days overlap between my coming back and him taking the children away for a week. I might see him for half an hour then during handover. I have not seen him more than 20 mins in the last week. This will be the longest we have ever gone without seening one another in the whole time I've known him. I might hold the conversation off until he gets back.
FS, I find your H's behavior around the house interesting as well. I agree with your thoughts on waiting to speak with him until after your trip. This will allow you to A) Observe additional behavior on his part and B) Remove yourself from your daily life a bit, and approach this topic calmly
Do you think he just wants to be in a familiar space? Perhaps he is trying it on like an old coat - seeing how it feels. He has his own emotions to process as well, and I wonder if being in the house helps him with processing. Assuming he really isn't doing anything negative, this is a strange conversation to have with him.
You're doing well with handling things with D12 and you all will make it. You're a great mom. Keep those bonds solid with them.
The talk about the house, I know that can be tough. It sounds like it went okay. Don't put extra stress on yourself about the house.... I've lived in many and what mattered were the good memories I had growing up. My siblings and I didn't have much but there was still love and that carried us far.
You're also doing the right thing being patient and giving yourself time to deal with your H. I also find it strange about your H being at the house like that, I think along the same lines as Yail.
Hugs to you and your girls.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
Hi Adam / Yail - sorry it's taken a while. I've tried to switch off a little this week.
My H's behavior is definitely not normal. When the kids are on holidays he will normally stay with them in the house for a few hours whilst I am at work and then take them somewhere. Whilst he is here he potters. He takes the rubbish out, he does some DIY, he cleans my car, takes our dog for a walk. I partly thought he was uncomfortable being at home and felt he needed to DO THINGS. But this week he has been here on his own and it's like he doesn't want anyone to know he is there. He literally leaves just before the nanny is due to arrive, he washes and puts away any dishes he has used (only his dishes mind, not the breakfast dishes). Of course, he knows I know. He installed that stupid camera. Maybe you're right. He has been ill this week and he wants to be at home, in front of his TV, surrounded by our things. It is strange, and I am still conflicted about how I will handle it.
Like I've said before, my stance is a passive one. Let him live his life, I live mine, don't push and don't pull. This feels like pushing.
He went to D12's parent teacher interviews last night. He asked me the nightbefore if I was going, and I told him I had plans. I went to D12's parent teacher night on my own last year, and as he didn't think it was necessary for both of us to go last year, I didn't think it was necessary that we both attend this year. He asked if I would look after D9 and I repeated I had plans. I spent the next 15 mins upstairs putting away clothes until I heard him leave. Then I went down and watched a movie with the children. I ended up changing my plans and watching D9 anyway as she would have missed out on her seeing her tutor - the logistics didn't work. A part of me thinks I should have stood my ground, a part of me doesn't want our children to miss out on things.
When he got back he told me D12 had started crying in one of her classes and she has been given a pass so she can leave any class if she starts to feel tearful. Apparently, she has been tearful a lot in class this week. Whilst he was telling me D9 asked me to look at something on her phone. When I looked down at the phone he said "well, if you don't want to listen then I won't bother telling you". I told him I was listening and am capable of doing more than one thing at the same time. He finished telling me how she was doing, and then said "right girls, we need to go".
I have finally got a consultation for D12 to see a therapist. It will be an initial assessment and not until March, but hopefully, this will give her an outlet to talk.
H and I have not seen that much of each other - though we have seen each other more than I thought. The only night he had the girls was Thursday, and as he was picking them up straight from school and I was going out, I had not expected to see him. But he text Wednesday to say his flight was cancelled and could he pick up the girls from football training (I said yes) I saw him for about 10 mins (that was the night I went to tidy my clothes). On Thursday, he asked me to help out with the pick ups (again saw him for 15 mins) and again this morning briefly when I dropped off D9's homework which she forgot take with her the night before.
I leave for Chamonix on Sunday. I have mixed feelings about this. I suspect some of D12's angst, and H's recent anger, has something to do with my going away. I don't really want to go, but I know I have to.
(((FS))) You are doing so well FS. Honestly...I think him hanging around the house when you aren't there is a good sign. My H would rather stick a fork in his eye. He is GONE but your H is still hanging on and is still confused about what he wants, IMO. I don't think he will say anything or do anything until he is absolutely sure in his mind that he wants to R. I'm not sure you should "confront" him on his being around the house. You could, however, casually bring it up that "I noticed you've been hanging around the house a lot this week when I've been out. What's that about?" or something to that effect. It's a genuine question and opens the door for a conversation if he wants to have one. He could come up with a bunch of different excuses if he wants and close that door but at least it would give him the option.
Good for you for making yourself go on your trip. I think, in the end, you will be glad you did.
Sorry D12 is struggling. My S11 is too. It is very hard to watch our kids go through this. (((HUGS)))
Sorry have been MIA for a while. Just got back, caught up with the girls and will catch up on everyone's sitch's once they've gone to bed tonight.
The trip away was wonderful and defiantly just what I needed. There were times, late at night, after everyone else had gone to bed, when alone, in my room, I cried myself to sleep, but overall it was really awesome. Before I met my H I used to go snowboarding with friends every year. It was always a budget affair, staying in youth hostels or cheap hotels, but we always had lots and lots of fun. It felt like that again. Lots of laughter and lots of positive energy. Just now, the drinking is more grown up, the food much much better and the accommodation, well the accommodation much less 'mouldy' . I was a bit worried as I only knew one of the 10 other guests, but i didn't need to be - they were all wonderfully warm and we bonded immediately. Bit of a mixed bag age wise, but we were all like minded (well, it WAS yoga based) and would talk late into the night about life, love, spirituality, ideologies and the importance of putting out there what you expect to get back. Plus, it's chamonix, so there was a different mountain to visit every day and the weather was amazing.
I called the girls every evening and they always sounded well, though a little distracted. They are 9 and 12 so am trying not to read too much into this. MIL says they have been happy'ish. D12 had some grumpy moments and she now realises how 'tough' it can be to get her ready in the morning. MIL lost her temper a few time, though she referred to it as 'having to talk sternly' to D12. H spoke to her and said 'FS deserves some time on her own' which is a completely 180 from the passive aggressive comments I have been getting in the months leading up to my going away. I don't now if this is because he has had some time to reflect or if he is just saying what he thinks he should say (and not really meaning it) but in the greater scheme of things, it doesn't matter. I did notice (thanks to the camera he installed) that he left today about 20 mins before I was due to come home.
I called him when I got back to ask what his plans for the next few days are. He is taking the girls away for a week but hadn't told me the details. I maintained an upbeat demeanour and the conversation was pleasant but 'logistical'. We spoke about what time he would come get the girls in the morning, if there was anything I needed to pack for them, and then said our goodbyes. He did not ask how my week was. I did not ask how his week was. From what I can tell he has been here at the house most of the week with the girls other than when he was working.
Thoughts on the below ...
I am not sure what the DB'g position would be on family group chats. We have a whatsapp group for the family that D12 set up. Whilst I was away I sent photos and updates on my holiday to the chat. Nothing major, things like "missing you both (D9 and D12) loads", photo from the top of Mount Blanc, vid of me boarding down a mountain etc, group photos of the group I was away with having lunch, or sitting in an outdoor pool overlooking snow capped mountains etc. I am not hiding anything and I wanted the girls to know what I was up to. But he is on this chat so would have seen also. If I am honest, I wanted him to know what I was up to. Not to make him jealous, but maybe so he knew I was getting on with my life.
Come to think of it, probably not particularly DB like ...
Oh, I think he is stalking me on Instagram. My account is private and the girls both follow me (I follow them, they follow me). D9's account is linked to my phone. I noticed today her account was accessed from a new device. I assume that this was him - only he has her user name and password.
Sounds like a fantastic trip FS. Really glad you followed through with it and discovered it was what you needed. I’m taking a trip with my kids and MIL in March. I think it is something I need as well and plan on soaking up every minute. Personally, I think the group What’s App account is fine. Whatever works for you as long as it doesn’t stop you from detaching and GAL. It’s all about you and doing what is best for you and your kids, IMO. No right or wrong, as far as I am concerned.
I would not be surprised that your H is stalking you on Instagram...lol. I have always maintained he is one of the ones who is going to want to come back.
. I was a bit worried as I only knew one of the 10 other guests, but i didn't need to be - they were all wonderfully warm and we bonded immediately. Bit of a mixed bag age wise, but we were all like minded (well, it WAS yoga based) and would talk late into the night about life, love, spirituality, ideologies and the importance of putting out there what you expect to get back. Plus, it's chamonix, so there was a different mountain to visit every day and the weather was amazing.