Aww FS- I can read your pain and frustration. Listen, I may be one of those people that has moved on quicker than you but you cannot compare our situations. It was so much easier for me to detach and then move on as a consequence. Heck, I haven't seen him since the 1st November, so that's a start. I've only exchanged 3 texts / emails (the last one telling to get his head out of his a**e and get the financials sorted)
It stands to reason that letting go will take longer with your situation. You are doing all the right things so if it is going to happen it will happen. I promise you when you're ready to let go / if you're ready, you'll know. You will wake up one day and know. If it's not the right time now that's not because of a 'fault' of yours. You're obviously a very rational person and perhaps you need to listen to your gut. I actually think that you have done a pretty good job of detaching but that detachment hasn't led you to move on. For me they were 2 distinct processes. There was no way I could move on without detachment, but I'm not sure that one always follows the other. For me, detachment is the means by which you receive clarity of thought; to stand or to go.
It must be heckish frustrating but I think you need to give yourself more time.
(((FS))). I stand by my previous thoughts which is that your H is one of the ones who is going to want to come home at some point. The decision is yours, however, as to how long it is you want to wait for that to happen. His connection to you is still quite strong which is why he hasn’t really pushed for any legal agreements. He has you down as Plan B and I suspect he is quite happy to continue on the way he has been for as long as he thinks you are okay with it. Right now, he sees you pretty consistently and he part-time parents so that he can also have time to himself that he wants with no requirement that he devote some of his free time to you and your MR. It is a good deal for him. But is it a good deal for YOU? For now, maybe, but I sense you are going to want some movement on this soon, one way or the other, as it is really hard to live in limbo long term. (((HUGS)))
Your words resonate with me as well, FSolo. Particularly with regards to the following:
1 - "I have been too focused on 'fixing' D12 I forgot to really listen to her." The gift of listening, as opposed to fixing, is a precious one. I wish people on this board would remember this as well.
2 - We appear to be in similar emotional states. Wanting to detach; blessed with the tools and opportunities to detach. Yet, very much still in love with our respective spouses...with all that comes with it: the grief, the longing for emotional intimacy, and the deep desire to bestow love.
Yorkie - I know everything you say is true. If he was a [censored] I could let hate drive me forward. If I did no see him all the time, I would be forced to build a life without him and I necessity would drive me forward. If we did not have children together, then I would have sold this house in the suburbs I can barely afford, moved to London and buried myself in work and social activities. I suck it in and take each day as it comes. I tell myself that if I keep putting one step in front of the other, maintain my calm, then I will make it to the next step without breaking down. Some days are worse then others.
DV - I think you are right. My H will be one of the ones who eventually wants to comes back. This is why it is so difficult for both of us to let go. Right now, he wants his freedom and he wants me to be waiting for him. I sense this in the words he uses, the random acts of kindness, the way he needs to assert control. Kindness in itself is an act of control. Push and pull. Pull just enough to keep me here, push when he feels I am getting too close. I expect that when others read this they think I am weak letting him cake eat the way he does. But I am not. My choices are based on what is best for me and what is best for my children. He can join us or he not. I am not affected either way. As Yorkie says, I have done a decent job of detaching. It is the letting go I am having problems with.
Paco - Thank you thank you thank you. We are getting an English tutor for D12 in addition to the IC. We have also started sitting with her in the evenings and going through those days lessons with her. H does it with her when he has her and I do it with her when I have her. It will take time away from D9 - I only see them for a couple of hours in the evening, but I will find a way to make it up to her. Y
Journaling
It has been a funny week, with lots of emotional ups and downs but I am feeling more positive today.
My ex (the one before H) was over from the state for three days and, as I was WFH wed, I asked him if he wanted to come and have dinner with me and the kids. It was spur of the moment invite. If I had gone to the office, we would not have been back until after 7 and he would have spent an hour or two with was home he children and had to hop back on a train to London so would not have really been worth it. But, as I was WFH, he was able to come over for 5, and spend some real time with them. He is godfather to the eldest and they were both flower girls at his wedding. My H has always thought my ex was sitting in the sidelines waiting for me to come back, and for a long time he was, but he has for some time, lived in NY and has three children of his own. I think that ship has sailed. Anyway, we all went out for pizza, he talked to D12 for a long time about 'being organised' and, strangely, meditating and breathing exercises and then, once we'd had dinner, he headed back. It was nice spending time with him and the children love him. I did not tell my H but he has probably heard from the kids. I am not hiding anything and would not encourage my kids to either.
Thursday I went out for drinks with my team and then we went for dinner. H offered to watch the kids (it was my night). We had a lovely meal with no H talk what so ever. Just good food, nice company, lots of laughter, and over priced wine. The restaurant is on the south side of the Tower Bridge, and when we came out the bridge was all lit up. It looked majestic. Reminded me that I don't look around enough. London is beautiful when you take the time to appreciate it. It's just everyone is always in a hurry to get to wherever they are going (probably due to the cold) that we don't stop and look. When I got home I spoke to H briefly. He was in the middle of doing something on D12's phone. He said it was going to take some time and I could head up to bed if I wanted to and he would show himself out. Discomfort I suspect. I was supposed to go out with my ex that night (I had told him) but as had seen my ex the night before decided to go to the work dinner instead.
Last night I went out for a drink with a work colleague. Nothing heavy. Just a couple of quiet drinks and then home by 9. My H and I had been communicating during the day (logistics) and I had said that I could be home early if he wanted to have dinner together but got no reply. So, not out of any revenge, i said yes when i to the invite for beers. In am glad I did. We had a really nice night. Talked about Game of Thrones and bad taste fancy dress costumes.
H is bringing the girls back any minute now. So better get a move on.
D12 is in the living room in tears. I got a text from my H today saying he'd been looking on her phone and found a second instigram account. It looks like an account she set up to play games, but there are about 200 followers and he didn't recognise any of the names. He said the language was quite bad and that there were comments like "Hey, what are you up to?". He asked me to speak to her about it tonight. I spoke to her and she refused to let me see her phone. She said I wouldn't understand - just kept repeating it. I told her that a condition of having a phone was that both her dad and I could look at it whenever we wanted. She burst into tears and has been crying ever since. I said that I loved her and wanted her to talk to me. She just kept saying I wouldn't understand. She said she was always sad and her phone was her way of escaping. She said it isn't rude or mean, but that I wouldn't understand. I told her I was sorry, that I knew how tough things were for her, that everything was changing (her school, her home, her body, her friends) and that I was here if she needed me. That we both loved her and wanted her to be happy. But - if she didn't show me what was on her phone I would delete all the apps on there. She is still in tears. At one stage, all three of us were sitting on the floor in tears.
It is so unnecessary. I hate him so much right now for putting us through this. Our children are in pain and, when I sent him a text to see if he was home, he replied that he is watching a football game and would call me later. I told him not to bother. We will be fine. The price of his freedom is our children's happiness. They will be ok - but they didn't need to be put through this in the first place.
The weird thing is he was in the house today for five hours. I left at 8 this morning and he turned up at 8:45. I still have that stupid camera he installed after he moved out so I know exactly what time he turned up and what time he left. He was supposed to be just dropping the dog off - he had the dog and the children last night - and stayed for FIVE hours. I was ok with it - I don't have anything to hide so he can snoop if he wants to - but looks like he ate some food from the fridge and watched netflix (his profile was on when I got home). Of course, he had five hours, so could have been snooping as well but mostly, it looks like he was making himself at home. He left just before the nanny was due to come over.
Yesterday, when he came to pick up the kids he was here for less than ten minutes. He was 30 mins late and when I asked him (nicely) to text me when he knew he'd he late, he got in a mood, saiid "come on girls we have to go" and turned around and walked back out. The day before (sat) when he dropped them off, he was running late and didn't even stop. He just dropped them off, waited until I opened the door, and drove off. I think he might have been late for work or annoyed because I had been out the night before, but really, it doesn't matter the reason, his behaviour is just plain rude. When things aren't going to plan, he gets in a huff and drives away.
He is a coward and hates conflict. He would rather get defensive, play the victim or go on the attack, and then run away before anyone can say anything back.
Series of texts from H telling me he was on his way home, the trains were very busy, how was D12, did I find out what the instigram account was about and did I mind if he didn't come pick up the girls this morning as he felt 'poo'. he did say that he prob. should not have gone to watch the game given he was not feeling well today. Abrupt responses "D12 is fine. I can take the girls in the morning. Enjoy your night" followed by "No" when he asked again if I had looked at her phone, "Ok" when he said he will talk to her as 'we need to get to the bottom of this".
Probably not the best way to handle it but right now I lack the energy and the composure to deal with him. My mind has been wandering to formalising the separation and consulting properly with a D lawyer and am sure if I had engaged I would have got angrier and angrier and said something I didn't want.
He finally stopped texting after the "OK" response.
(((FS))) Sorry to hear about D12 and your H’s passive aggressive behaviour. It is so tough watching our kids deal with this crap. I also hate my H when I see my kids struggling. My H is like yours... they’ll be fine...just an adjustment...can’t have anything to do with my decisions ‘cause after all, they just want me to be happy. Where is the eye roll emoji when I need it?!?
BTW...I think you handled the situation with your D12 beautifully. I learned the most from my parents when I expected them to come down hard on me and, instead, they responded with empathy and understanding. Important that you continue to do so when you look through her phone and if you see anything questionable, have a conversation about it and about what it means to her. Some kids can be a bit questionable with the words they choose so good to know how it is perceived by your D.
I get how frustrating this is for you. It is interesting to me that your H hasn’t taken any steps to formalize your separation or file for a D. I wonder how long he would be okay to go on like this for. Or would you taking steps to do it be a bit of a wake up call? It could. It could also go the other way. When I was perusing the old threads here, it seemed to me that most of the people who did R, it was usually a couple years after BD. To stand or not, that is the question. I, for one, would love to have had the time that you have had to acclimate to the changes. My H wants to be divorced by the summer so he can date without our marriage “hanging over” his head. No, that’s not hurtful AT ALL. Anyway...onwards and upwards. You have to figure out what is right for you FS. Like I said...I firmly believe he doesn’t really want a D. He’s just too proud to admit it to you...and even more so to himself. (((HUGS)))
Thanks DV - H behaviour yesterday wasn't passive aggressive (for once). Mine was. I thought I was off the emotional roller coaster, but apparently I am not. This time it isn't my hurt that has clouded my judgement, it is D12.
After we had the chat, she was smiling again. I told her we would be fine. That she and her sister were the two things in this world I loved most, and also the two things in this world their dad loves most. That would never change. I told her her dad and I would always love one another, we just can't live together. Things might change, like we might have to move because I can't afford this house, and bless her, D9 said "this house is too big for just the three of us". D12 said she would have to sell most of her things and I replied that, yes, probably but that they are just things. We all sat quietly on the floor. I then said that she had a choice, either show me what was on her phone, or I would delete all the apps. Her body language changed, she looked me straight in the eye, tears on her face again, and said "delete them". I told her not to do anything rash, sleep on it and she had until this morning to decide. Again, she repeated "I told you to delete them" and walked off and sat by the fire. She didn't move from that spot for over an hour. Just sat there, staring at the fire. Finally I told her she had to go to bed. She didn't even look up. Just got up and walked to her room.
I don't know what to say to her. I don't know what to say to him. The right thing to do is to talk to him when he calls today - which he will. But I can't. I still blame him for this. Her hurt is my hurt and in exactly the same way, I know I won't be able to control my emotions. I will either get angry and escalate, or, in my own way, beg him to come home. I can feel myself going back to using coldness as protection.
I don't know why he hasn't formalised things. Sometimes I think it is because he has it too easy. Sometimes I think that he can't let go either. He was unwell yesterday and instead of staying in his own flat, watching TV, and feeling sorry for himself, he decided to do that here (for five hours). When I am ill all I want is to be in my own home. He wouldn't have done that if I was here though. Only when I am out. He wants the house, he wants the kids, but only when it suits him. At no point does he actually want me - he just wants me to pay for the house and look after his kids.
Sorry, I'm ranting and why I can't talk to him today.
Wow...your D12 sure doesn’t want you to look at her apps. I wonder if there is something really bad on there or if she is worried about something her friends said or did and she is protecting them. Are there any adults that she trusts that she might be willing to show them to? Her counsellor? She obviously thinks she is going to get into trouble for something. Deleting the apps addresses the issue in the short term but not the long term. It is a bit of a pickle you are in. Would she let you see look at it if you promised her she won’t get into trouble and that you just need to make sure she is being safe and responsible in her technology use. The things we have to worry about in this day and age. Scary world.
That is strange your H would spend five hours in your home without you or the kids there. My H would never do that. He can barely be in my house for five minutes let alone five hours.
Don’t talk to your H until you feel like you can. You can always just say that you are havivng a difficult day and don’t feel like you are in the frame of mind to have a productive discussion and that you will call him back when you are feeling up to it. You don’t really owe him any more of an explanation than that. It’s either that or don’t answer.
D12 is in the living room in tears. I got a text from my H today saying he'd been looking on her phone and found a second instigram account. It looks like an account she set up to play games, but there are about 200 followers and he didn't recognise any of the names. He said the language was quite bad and that there were comments like "Hey, what are you up to?". He asked me to speak to her about it tonight. I spoke to her and she refused to let me see her phone. She said I wouldn't understand - just kept repeating it. I told her that a condition of having a phone was that both her dad and I could look at it whenever we wanted. She burst into tears and has been crying ever since. I said that I loved her and wanted her to talk to me. She just kept saying I wouldn't understand. She said she was always sad and her phone was her way of escaping. She said it isn't rude or mean, but that I wouldn't understand. I told her I was sorry, that I knew how tough things were for her, that everything was changing (her school, her home, her body, her friends) and that I was here if she needed me. That we both loved her and wanted her to be happy. But - if she didn't show me what was on her phone I would delete all the apps on there. She is still in tears. At one stage, all three of us were sitting on the floor in tears.
It is so unnecessary. I hate him so much right now for putting us through this.
FS, very sorry you are still on the roller coaster! But I think you need a 2x4. At some point you've got to quit blaming your H for every problem in your life. The above is an example of how you are blaming him for something that is not at all his fault. My D's are 22 and 24 now, but when they went through the teen years we dealt with very similar issues of inappropriate online behavior. It's tough because you want to cling to the notion that your kids are innocent and unaware of the ways of the world, but nope, then you get a big ol' slap of reality upside the head. It sounds like your H actually discovered the inappropriate activity and brought it up, so why are you angry at him and laying the blame at his feet?
Separation and divorce s*ck, there's just no denying it. But part of DB'ing is to forgive and let go and become the master of your own destiny. You post over and over again about how your H said or texted something that triggered you, at some point you've just got to let go and move on for YOUR health and well-being! I know it's easier said than done but having been through it I am here now to tell you life gets a LOT better after you finally do drop that rope. So try and focus on how you can do that.
My brother has been divorced for 10 or so years and still blames his ex for his financial woes. He seems to forget that he wanted to keep the giant house to "get back at her". He also seems oblivious to the fact that he could have sold it at any time instead of letting it continue to crush him financially. But it's all her fault, he would be rich if she hadn't left, she wanted to buy the house and now he's stuck with it, on and on and on. He is extremely bitter and refuses to date again because "all women are just like her". HE is the reason for his unhappiness, not her. She's been out of his life 10 years, at what point does one accept that that other person is no longer a factor and that they are responsible for their own unhappiness?
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The price of his freedom is our children's happiness. They will be ok - but they didn't need to be put through this in the first place.
But they are being put through it, as my kids were and tens of thousands of other kids out there are and were. So quit blaming and start planning for a future for you and them WITHOUT H.
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The weird thing is he was in the house today for five hours.
That's unacceptable. Tell him you know he was there for 5 hours and you will not tolerate that. As long as you let him come and go as he pleases and let him infiltrate your life like this then he's going to keep triggering you.
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I was ok with it - I don't have anything to hide so he can snoop if he wants to - but looks like he ate some food from the fridge and watched netflix (his profile was on when I got home).
How can you be OK with that?
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He is a coward and hates conflict. He would rather get defensive, play the victim or go on the attack, and then run away before anyone can say anything back.
Yes he is a classic passive/ aggressive "nice guy".
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Why am I putting myself through this sh!t.
Right!! Why are YOU putting yourself through this. YOU have control of your life!
