New thread- Newcomer pre-bomb drop

[Bern19]

Thank you R2C. That’s a great link. I’ll spend a bunch of time in there for sure....

As for reveling my I tell I’ve made that mistake too many times before. I think I now realize that is her way of getting control back. She must know what I have on her so she can start to develop the “spin” she puts on it to make it seem like it’s not that bad. It’s never as bad as I make it out to be. I have to stop giving her that intel and let her wonder what’s going on for once.

We have been going to a MC since December, and she’s been going to see our counselor for IC as well. It dawned on me that she’s probably going on her own to help set the agenda for our next couples session. I had been talking with a local pastor, but during the holidays we lost touch as his schedule gets insane that time of year. So, I reached out to our marriage counselor about me coming in for a individual session. My question is, do I out the fact that the ww is lying to both of us and is still having contact with the OM?

[ovrrnbw]

I wouldn't bother going to IC just to out your W as still cheating. Just do it in MC and save yourself the time. Follow R2C's boundaries for what he wants from his woman. If you're ready to file, file. If not, move on without filing.

[Bern19]

Thanks ovrrnbw. I hear you. No matter what the next step for me, I won't be the one filing. I plan on making her do all the heavy lifting. I did meet with a Lawyer months ago, but more time was spent on what he will and won't do and how much it will cost than on advice on getting ready. I think I need to meet with a couple more. Regardless of my next plan of action, I will not help her with the process in anyway. I think it will do her good to have to do this on her own.

As for outing her to the therapist, that's not the reason I'm going. I do have other issues I'd like to discuss, the main one being how I've been working on myself for the past year. Working on being a better husband, helping more around the house, getting back into shape... You know, all the stuff she said I was failing at. I jumped in the deep end and got to work. In doing so it seems I've found myself. Not sure when it happened, but I started to realize that while I could have been a better husband, she certainly could have been a better wife. Neither one of us was doing a very good job of meeting each others needs. I guess during those couple of months where she led me to believe we were working on reconciling, it dawned on me that I felt I was making all this progress and truly felt like I was becoming a better husband. Yet I never felt like she was making any progress towards being a better wife or meeting my needs better. Turns out the whole thing was just a sham and she never was working on being a better wife. She was playing a part to help smooth out her home life. I just wondered if it is out of bounds to tell her IC that she is being lied to? Or is that not my place?

The other thing I'm trying to figure out is how to move forward. Do I even tell the wife I know, or do I just go dark?

[ovrrnbw]

Why not get your own IC for that?

As for telling on her to the MC, what's the point? It seems like you really want to tell the MC what's going on. The MC's have more experience than us, they know how these things work. The counselors know they are being lied to a lot of the times, do you think that she's going to tell your W to stop lying and that your W would listen? There are business and clinical reasons not to do that.

Just tell your W you won't be with a woman who is an affair. If you do that, it's probably time to kick her out. She is disrespecting you and your family and your marriage. And did you ever out the OM to his W? I know you and him had some discussions before.

And if you can't kick her out or tell her/show her you won't be with a cheater then just go to the moving on part without saying anything.

Then move on, go out with buddies, play sports, go hunting, enjoy your newfound freedom like you were a single guy again. Talk to women, go on adventures, whatever you like.

[AnotherStander]

Bern, I'm sorry about this latest revelation, that had to be very painful to discover. I'm not up on your entire sitch but we often say a WW has to hit rock bottom before things will change for the better. Rock bottom is usually the WAS realizing she has well and truly lost everything and she becomes desperate to get it back and will do anything. We advise that after your spouse has cheated on you, if they want back they have to agree to several things including full transparency on phone and social media. IE- she must be willing to hand over her phone whenever you ask so that you can review her messages. And she has to provide you with all social media passwords so you can check on her activity. If she has truly hit rock bottom she will do this and more. If she hasn't she will accuse you of being controlling.

It sounds to me like your W never hit rock bottom, you let her come back too soon. All she did was go deeper undercover with her shenanigans. She's addicted to OM and the rush of doing something sneaky and it's not going to stop. If it's not physical right now, it's only a matter of time before it starts back up again.

You ask whether you should confront her. Here's the thing, if you confront her she is just going to lie and deflect so what is the point. I hate to say it because this is a marriage-saving site, but I don't think you have a chance of saving your M unless you leave her. If she loses you she may finally hit rock bottom and own the terrible things she's done. Or she may not, so you can't do it unless you are really done yourself and to the point of not caring if she comes back or not. So my opinion is if you confront her, you tell her you know what she's doing and you are done. Tell her you want her to pack her bags and get out. She may refuse, if she does then you go completely dark on her. No chit chat, no going out, no counseling, nothing. If you don't feel you can do this then don't, you have to get to the point where you are fed up and done with her before you can go to this extreme. But I think it's going to have to get to that point before she might wake up.

[Bern19]

Thanks AnotherStander. I agree with what you said about letting her come back too soon. Sandi and others warned me about making it being too easy to get back to working on reconciliation. I do know that I'm not willing to share her with him in ANY way. I don't care if she misses him as a friend or whatever lame reasoning she'll use to make it seem like it's not that big of a deal. It's just such a bad deal. She and the OM work for the school district that my kids attend. I keep thinking what happens if they are outed by the OM's wife or in some other public way. How can she not see how destructive that would be for our kids, being the butt of every joke because their mom was caught being a whore. I just can't believe she can't see that.

I think my plan is to just come out and ask her when the last time she contacted him. When she lies, and she will lie, I can tell her that I know she is lying, that I'm done and that I want her to pack her bags and get out. I'm confident she won't leave, and I have ruled out leaving my home, so I'm stuck with her. Hopefully me cutting off contact and limiting her to the OM ( and the little time she can be with him because OM's wife is monitoring him), she'll start to realize that she depends on me for more than she thinks. I guess at this point, I'd just like her to realize that I've been meeting more of her needs than she ever realized, even if we never get past this and get back together.

[Bern19]

Why not get your own IC for that?

She has been my IC. She knows my history. I guess it just seems more expedient since i can skip the 2-3 sessions of getting a new counselor up to speed. Plus I'm comfortable with her.

As for telling on her to the MC, what's the point? It seems like you really want to tell the MC what's going on. The MC's have more experience than us, they know how these things work. The counselors know they are being lied to a lot of the times, do you think that she's going to tell your W to stop lying and that your W would listen? There are business and clinical reasons not to do that.

I want to tell her that I'm bailing on the reconciling with my wife and done with MC because my wife is continuing with the OM. By telling her that, I'm effectively outing my wife as a liar. I know she confided in her friend that she hasn't been truthful with the IC. Maybe I asked my question poorly. What I was trying to say was if I go to her to talk about the change in our status, is it fair game to disclose, or because my wife hasn't disclosed that am I expected to keep that from the IC?

Just tell your W you won't be with a woman who is an affair. If you do that, it's probably time to kick her out. She is disrespecting you and your family and your marriage. And did you ever out the OM to his W? I know you and him had some discussions before.

And if you can't kick her out or tell her/show her you won't be with a cheater then just go to the moving on part without saying anything.

Then move on, go out with buddies, play sports, go hunting, enjoy your newfound freedom like you were a single guy again. Talk to women, go on adventures, whatever you like.

I think this is my plan. I love my wife, but just can't stand looking at her while I know she is lying to me. I don't know if all this will be easier to handle if I don't have to see her all the time, but I'm to the place where I think i'd like to give it a try. Not loving the idea of a separation for the kids sake though. I know the two youngest will be traumatized and the ww will actually believe that their pain is on me. smh.

[Ready2Change]

That you all don't really know my wife, that she's different.

I have read this statement from 100's of posters. Not sure why you think she is so different than all the other lying cheating spouses.

She hasn't cut off communication with the OM

There is way more than "communication" going on. Unless your wife is the ONE unique lying cheating spouse.

That divorce wasn't an option for us.

Not for her, she is getting all her needs met by multiple men. No reason for her to get divorced. One man to meet her physical needs. You to meet her financial and other needs.

So, I need to make a fundamental change in how we interact.

Glad you realize this.

So, it's clear that the wife is pretending to be working on the marriage.

Sounds like she has been doing this for several years now.

She'll be able to continue to work with him and it will be OK.

I doubt it. How many drug addicts can get clean while living with the drug dealer?

[Ready2Change]

Not loving the idea of a separation for the kids sake though.

We are all in agreement here. We all wish that our spouse were logical about this.

I know the two youngest will be traumatized

Your W is the one doing the destruction to the family.

and the ww will actually believe that their pain is on me.

Do lots of reading on how to respond to these false accusations from her.

Do not rush anything. Make a plan. Execute the plan. Do not rush. Set boundaries that you can and will enforce.


Do not "decide" on anything with your emotions. Fight this battle with logic.

[sandi2]

Honestly, I don't want to even talk about it, I just want to be done with her for a while. How do I do that if she refuses to leave the home? I've told her I will not accept an in-house separation, but I still don't want to leave my home. Is it acceptable to just tell her "I've said it before and I mean it still- I will not share you with him, and I will not share my bed with you while he is part of your life". ?

But you are sharing her with him! You are sharing your bed with her while he is part of her life! For a guy who doesn't want to talk about it and just be done with her for a while........you sure are thinking of a lot of stuff to say.

You can't reason with crazy, and you can't talk her into being a good wife. She's not your best friend, and you can't trust her. She is seeing the MC so that she can claim she tried everything, "even counseling" and nothing helped to save the M. So, stop attending counseling sessions with her. She is very wayward and she's nowhere close to being ready for MC.

As for the OM's wife, he has told her nothing but lies. She still thinks that because he "confessed" and then told their daughter and their parents about the affair, that he has put this mistake behind him and is working on their marriage.

Some betrayed spouses are willing to accept whatever the cheater/liar tells them. She may not want you to tell her, b/c she doesn't want to deal with the truth.

I struggle with wanting to tell her that his confession is a bunch of lies. That whether you want to believe it or not, they are still talking and hiding it from us.

I'm not picking on you, but I am going to get a little harsh, b/c I see LBH's who practically say word for word what you stated above......even by starting their sentence with "I struggle with wanting to tell OM's W". So, here's the truth of your real struggles as I see it. You can't do anything with your WW to make her end things with OM, b/c she has had your b@lls for a long time. You want to tell OM's W b/c you are hoping she can do more with her wayward H than you can do with your wayward W. Maybe I'm wrong, but whenever I see this happen......I get the idea that the LBH is hoping someone else will do the dirty work for him. Then I see where you plan to reveal to the MC in session tonight, in front of your WW.......again, I think you are hoping someone else can be the bad guy, rather than yourself.

I'm not faulting you for trying to get help, Bern. I want you to understand that what you are currently doing is not working. By this point, you are going to need to be a lot stronger and tougher than when you first joined the board. You know why, right?

As I’ve said before, my intention was to fight to put this marriage back together. That divorce wasn't an option for us. That you all don't really know my wife, that she's different. She'll be able to continue to work with him and it will be OK. It became crystal clear that it doesn't work that way right before Christmas. So, I need to make a fundamental change in how we interact. While I thought I was doing good at GAL & detachment, I obviously need to up my game.

Up your game? You need to completely change the dynamics in this relationship. Take back your b@lls, and stop being a wuss. Who puts up with a W who is sleeping with the guy at work? Why would you think they could continue working together after having an A? And then I see where you actually said you wouldn't have a problem with her missing him as a friend, but you didn't want to share her with him in any way. What? That "friendship" excuse is a cr@p trap. Do you realize how crazy that sounds to be okay with her missing her AP, as long as it's like missing a friend? ((Bern)) They will never be able to be just friends. NEVER! Do not let her convince you that she thinks of him "only as a friend". That's a lie born out of the deceitfulness of a WW.

As long as you believe you can nice her back, or talk her back, or have someone else do the dirty work........you will lose her to OM or OM#2, 3, etc.

Get fed up and stop trying to keep someone who doesn't want to honor your love. Even after all she's done, you just want to be done with her for a little while? What would it take for YOU to be done with her forever? I'm just curious.

I'm going to share this with you, then I need to close for the night. When I was a wayward W, if my H had gotten fed up with me and decided he wasn't going to waste his life on a loveless, sexless MR with a WW who did not treat him better than I was treating him........and if he had enforced that decision with his actions.....it would have yanked me out of my waywardness so fast I would have had whiplash! In other words, I'm saying if he had dumped me.......was finished with ME.... ......of all things......he would have become the most attractive guy on the planet. And, he'd have to show the action, instead of explaining to me what he was doing and giving me details.

I hope you won't leave and stay gone another month without posting.

((hugs))