I agree with Yorkie on some of the things to do with D12. I was waking up 5:30 in the mornings and getting S11 up earlier because I knew how long he would take. If he relied on a clock, he would not wake up. Sad that is how it is so its either W or me waking him up. She does it more now and I get the little one ready. There are times when I want him to do something, I start it first then I call him to come help me and we talk about stuff while he is helping. This worked with taking out the trash. I let him do it, I noticed several things he didnt know how to do, then I made suggestions. People like to overstuff the trash cans and push stuff down so when this happens its hard to pull out. He saw this first hand and I explained this and other things. After he got it, he started to do this by himself and this helps him earn some spending money as part of his chores now. One time before I showed him, W wanted him to throw away the inside trash bag into the outside garbage can. Well, he didn't know how to cinch and he threw the bag upside down and all the stuff spilled out. She yelled at him and said he should have known. He was upset, and somewhat embarrassed. I went into the room to talk to him. Then I went to explain it to her so they could work it out later on. This was after BD. I don't talk to W about us but if it came to our kids, I sure would.
I also think its a good idea for D to have the board. She could have a checklist of all her equipment on it or something and have it checked off if its in her bag. You could maybe check with her before bedtime or something and I'm sure you've tried things already. I agree with including her in on doing what she needs to do and maybe you lead to see if she needs help. I know how it can be with kids that age. We have a little board in the kitchen for the kids schedule and things relating to the money they make from their chores.
I don't want to talk bad about my W but there are some really trying challenges ahead when it deals with the kids. We used to be on the same page about everything and I was the overprotective one, the safe one, the one worrying too much. The new house she is getting done in May, she is also having a pool built immediately afterwards. Prior to BD, we agreed to put the kids in swimming classes to help prevent possibly accidental drowning. As far as I know she is still going ahead with the pool but haven't put them in classes and this worries me. Her cousin was telling me about some distant relative who had 2 twins who drowned when the guy went to visit his sick mother. They wandered to the back pool and fell in. My S11 when he was young was left unattended in her brothers back pool and almost drowned because he ran back out with his life jacket off. I ran back outside to look for him and saw him submerged under water. Her brother had just come from that area too and had this look like he didn't see anything or didn't care. I was so angry.
FS, my W sounds like you with the yelling. She has one method and that is to keep raising her voice. She has been unable to take a moment to teach the kids, and I am not sure if its because they are boys. We always wanted a girl but we have two beautiful boys who we both love so dearly. Her way of taking care of them is so different from mine. I tell them about God, I teach them about behaviours, actions etc. She helps to make sure they are clean or has something to eat or need to go to bed and has their backpacks ready or their clothes are clean. I'm positive she wants me to do more of what she does and I am also 100% wishing she would do some of the stuff I have like my S6 would be sitting right next to her in the living room and calls for me to play with him because his mom wont. I can't think about when we split and I am only with them for 2 days. Maybe that will open her eyes for the betterment of our boys.
I'm sorry to hear about your D FS. How did the tests go? Your H really needs to look at himself in the mirror when it comes to D.
I have my moments when I drink at home, I fix a vodka and soda. Might make a late night one right now.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
Harvey - I have always been a reasonably sensible drinker but over the last two months I have really bought into the binge drinking culture. It is a problem over here, and one I have always managed to avoid. In the past I would have one or two drinks then make my excuses and go. In the past, I wanted to go home. To my H, to my kids. I don't drink at home and I don't drink on my own. So, if I were to be brutally honest with myself, I do it out of loneliness and because I get a lot of attention when I am out. I am someone else. Not a lonely middle aged single mum. But, having said that, the holiday I have planned in Feb is a yoga/skiing retreat so, for one week, I will be indulging hobbies which are healthy for both my mind and body. There will be drinking, but it will be more in line with what I am use to - wine with dinner, maybe a shot of something late at night.
Adam - D12 and I were very close until she started high school (just before BD). The pulling away was to be expected. The attitude was to be expected. The tears were not. Anyone who knew us would tell you that our children are spoilt both with love and with "things". They have always had everything done for them, they have always had the best of everything. They have always been the centre of our worlds. When he MO, all our worlds fell apart. Their perfect life was in tatters. D9 handles it well. She is in tune with the feelings of others and wants to make everyone feel ok. D12 is also in tune with others, but internalises everything.
It is now a balance between giving her the space and freedom to be 12 and work out who she is and not leaving her to flounder. A difficult balance and sometimes I fail. I still do stuff for her but I can't stand over her (and tbh - she just gets upset if I do). The only time it turns into yelling is when we are out the door and she is still half dressed and looking for socks. Yesterday I put all her football stuff out for her, woke her up and said that her daddy is picking her up in an hour so she needs to get ready. I then went downstairs to get myself ready and make breakfast. When I saw she was nearly finished getting ready, on the couch playing on her phone (20 mins before pick up) I asked her to put her socks and boots on. She said "I'll put them on in the car". When he came to pick her up she couldn't find her socks - we all ran around the house looking for them. She was screaming that someone must have moved them and nearly crying again. They turned out to be under her football jacket on the stairs (where she dropped them as she came down that morning). I managed to maintain my cool that time because D9 wasn't being made late for school and neither was I. But, when D9 is late every morning and I have to explain at work why I am late, well, it becomes harder not to lose my temper.
We couldn't get the tests done - the forms were in H's car. But we had a nice trip to the hospital and a long chat so it was worth doing. H is taking her today.
I am sorry your W won't engage with the children. I am lucky I guess in that regard, both H and I are devoted to them. It took MO for him to realise that, but at least he did. He was here all day yesterday - it was his day with the kids and he chose to spend it at home with all three of us. As it was his day I pottered around the house - did yoga up in my room, laundry, washing and tidying. I watched TV for a bit. He sat in the den, watching them play mind craft whilst playing on his phone. This would never have happened pre BD. I would have been running around trying to get things done and entertaining the kids whilst he sat in the living room watching TV.
From an outsiders perspective it might sound like I was not engaging with the family, but it was his day with the kids and it is easier on both of us (and thus the children) if we do not spend too much time in the same room. The kids loved having us both at home and not fighting. We also went to dinner together with his mum and SD. No direct conversation but it wasn't uncomfortable.
Your W will realise how much you do for the children and will either step up or she won't. I guess prepare yourself mentally for both eventualities because both will hurt. She either becomes the mother you wanted her to be (and this hurts) or she screams and yells at the children more.
I put D12's clothes out for school yesterday and I am now going to put a smile on my face and wake her up.
I understand the grief, the loneliness. I understand the love you seem to still bear for your H, and the frustration over the fact that "love"--at least for now--seems to not be enough.
I have deliberately avoided alcohol, except socially and only two beers at most. I know that going further would be, for me, the path to madness.
Grief is the penalty we pay for loving; if we did not still love, we would not still be grieving.
Paco - not taken as judgement at all. Your words always resonate with me. I don't know if it's the path to madness, but it certainly is the path to self hate. I will get a better handle on it.
You have put it well - for my H at least, love is not enough. It was not enough when he left (the resentment was to strong) and it is not enough now (pride cometh before the fall).
I question sometimes, given the time that has passed, whether I should still be grieving or if I am just simply, wallowing in my grief. I read the threads here and whilst I celebrate with those that have managed to build new and fulfilling lives without their spouses, I wonder, why I, over a year in, am still stuck, holding on to the little flicker of a hope that still lives inside me. It is true, I am not the same person as I was when he left. I am certainly more fulfilled now, the tears and emotional rollercoaster are (for the most part) long gone, I have friends I would not have had if circumstances were different, I am in great shape and I have a job where I am respected and well liked. What is not to love about my life. But I still want my H to come home. I still feel the space he left.
Journalling
I have just come home. My H was here earlier with the children. He made them dinner and picked up their clothes for tomorrow. I can still smell the cooking smells in the kitchen so they have not been gone long. Before he left he had never ever cooked them dinner. Funny how things change. Right now he would be sitting in his car in the carpark at the school where the girls train for netball, waiting for training to finish. They will stay with him tonight and he will take them to school in the morning. If I am lucky, they will have forgotten something and stop by the house on the way to his flat. He is not expecting me to be here so I doubt he will stop by. He does not like the girls coming home to find me not here.
I had rescheduled my dinner with the boy for tonight but I emailed him and cancelled. It has been too long and it is just plain awkward now - we can manage one to one conversation for about ten minutes ("how was your weekend?" etc) but then it falls into silence as we both desperately try to find something safe to talk about. There is a white elephant in the room and I already have one person in my life where conversations are nuanced. I do not need two.
Work continues to be crazy as we discover more and more wrong with the delivery. The project was to create a fully operational subsidiary in Europe within 12 months capable of processing billions in revenue in any given year. Achieved, but with a lot of holes. We are now desperately trying to plug those holes. I spend a large part of my day swearing at my monitor - you can time the swearing with the arrival of each new email. There is a lot of manic laughter in the room as we uncover yet another thing that needs fixing FAST. I have to admit, I love the noise. I will not love it so much when the finger pointing starts - which is bound to happen.
I need to book my flights for my holiday. H always took care of this for me. He sent me a text today saying that he would still help. I am no longer on his flight list so can't get free flights (long story, but basically he wants to go to vegas for a stag do in June and he is putting two of his mates on his list). n't he can still get me discounts. He then sent me possible flights I might want to book. He STILL does these things for me. I really don't understand. It is like, as long as it doesn't interfere with his 'freedom' then he will still act like my H.
We also had an exchange of texts about him taking the girls away in Feb. He is taking them on a cruise. He was concerned there would not be an opportunity for me to see the girls between getting back from my holiday and him taking them away so is moving his holiday back a day. The exchange of texts was all very 'friendly'. When he told me what he was planning I responded with a 'That sounds awesome. The girls will love that - they need some winter sun' (which I think falls into lovingly detached) but inside I was tearing in two. I had to go for a walk to calm myself down.
Like I said at the start of this entry, why can't I move on. I have accepted the way things are. I have forgiven him and myself. Surely, the grief should be gone now ?!?!?
I understand the grief, the loneliness. I understand the love you seem to still bear for your H, and the frustration over the fact that "love"--at least for now--seems to not be enough.
I have deliberately avoided alcohol, except socially and only two beers at most. I know that going further would be, for me, the path to madness.
Grief is the penalty we pay for loving; if we did not still love, we would not still be grieving.
Not sure I entirely agree with this. While I agree that it requires love to grieve, the inverse is not necessarily true.
Grieving means we still love. However, we can stop grieving but NOT stop loving. I know you weren't saying this but I wanted to make sure no one reading read it that to grieve is to love and to love is to grieve. You can still love and NOT grieve.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Like I said at the start of this entry, why can't I move on. I have accepted the way things are. I have forgiven him and myself. Surely, the grief should be gone now ?!?!?
I don't think it works like that. You don't check a, b, and c, and expect D to happen. Give it more time. As people have said, you are pretty self-aware. However it takes a lot more time than you could imagine, until one day you no longer feel that way. Looking ahead, you can't see when that will be. There is no marker. But one day, when you look back, you will realize it just happened. Maybe you could pinpoint when it happened, or maybe you would be so far down your path that it doesn't matter. I wouldn't sweat it either. The more you fight it and try to figure it out, the more energy you waste on it. As you said, embrace it, let it flow. Like meditation. Your outter image of yourself senses these things, but deep down you'll know. Maybe it's not full blown grief, but there are tinges of pain. This is okay. I don't think this works in black and white or hot and cold. We want to bring it to bearable. When emotions are bearable, we can thrive.
This is one facet of your life. One chapter. Sure, the story may spill over into other chapters, but you have so much ahead, a long way still to go. Like the seasons slowly change, those moments will turn into past hours and then fade away into days and weeks.
BTW, when I talk about my W I don't mean to put her down or say she is a bad mother. And when I commented about the yelling, I was not trying to link any semblance there. I hope I didn't come across a certain way about that and if I did, I apologize. As parents, raising voices, yelling, and sometimes having to spank, ground, and all the hard stuff, It comes with the territory. I've also been the disciplinarian when it came to the tough love with the boys, wonder how that will play out too...
We're humans on either side trying to deal with this in our own ways, your H and you, my W and I. I know with my W and I there is a genuine lack of communication. I've probably said it before but she is a runner and avoids conflict. She is not someone who would spend the time to try and talk it out. She would say there are too many words spoken. You have that bond with your D12 and you're aware of the situation, giving space. My S11 is at that stage and it's now hard for him to open up. I am afraid that between them two when there is an issue, she may not know how to handle it. Her parents have never communicated on that level in the 25 years I've seen them together. They've always slept in separate rooms. Quiet with one another. And here I am making a big fuss like we need to talk this out right now and get this off our chest. She'll sleep on it and forget it. I have learned to accept that, as a way to diffuse - not to completely ignore, and not always.
My W tells me she still cares about me. I have the same thoughts that come to my mind but I don't say anything, the ones where I say "oh yeah well then why didn't you try to work it out before doing this?" I try to be the rock, but sometimes it feels like the pebble. I realize I am doing this to myself. W wants out, she is trying to be nice, trying not to feel as guilty for having this happen. Of course she wants to cake eat too. I do love her enough to let her go and I leave it at that.
W used to book all our flights because she coordinated all the holidays with her side of the family. I was always an extension of that. When I would make reservations for us, for our anniversary or her bday or w/e, I'd change them to include some of her siblings or all of them. Your H is nice in that regard.
Also I would not discount the benefits of drinking entirely, namely allowing for a good nights sleep when its one of them days. I do agree there are dangers when flirting with alcoholism as escapism.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
(((FS))). I would feel the same way about the cruise FS. My H and I always talked about taking the kids on a Disney cruise. Not sure either of us will be able to do that anymore. I know it would sting if I got an email telling me he was taking them.
TBH... I think the reason you are still stuck is because the four of you spend so much time together. From what you write, it sounds as if things are not that different than before except you each have your own residence. I know you are trying to keep things as normal as possible for your girls but, at the same time, I think it is holding you back. Your H has not yet felt what it is like to lose you. He can still come and go as he pleases and even though you are DBing, I don’t think he is very worried at all that you are not a solid Plan B for him. He needs to be worried that he is losing you if he is ever going to think about R.
I rarely see my H. Probably in a week, I will see him about 10 minutes total. Recently, I have really cut down on my texts about the kids. Both of these things have REALLY helped me with detaching. Am I 100% there yet? I’d be an idiot if I said yes. But... I think I am at 85% at least and that has only been in the last couple weeks that I have gotten there and I think it is because I’ve gone as NC as possible.
FSolo, your grief sounds human...not pathological. Especially after a 16 year partnership.
Own your grief and your feelings; you’ll be better off for it in the long run.
I have a transglobal set of friends who patiently listen to my pain on my bad days; I owe them so, so much.
Paco - thank you. Rationally, I know grief takes however long it takes to subside. It works on its own timeline and i just need to ride the waves. But, reading some of the threads here makes me wonder what is holding me back. I read about others moving on and I feel a tiny sharp pain in my heart. I want to move on desperately, I want to be open to a new relationship, and I know the only thing holding me back is me ... but I can't do it. I simply cannot let go. Yesterday was a bad day. It was a day of self reflection and sadness (D12, them going on holidays without me, work being crazy) and today is a new day. I am thankful that I am who I am - confident, smart, intelligent and kind - I am grateful for what I have (a beautiful home, two gorgeous children, a H who is not a b****d, a job that is fulfilling) and I too am grateful for the 'transglobal' group of friends I have made who will listen patiently whilst I wallow in self pity and a sadness of my own making. Today I am working on accepting I am unable to let go (for now) and just ride those waves.
Anyway, P, thank you again. To others, I hope reading the small words of comfort I offer you provides as much comfort as I have received in reading your words. This site has been an oasis for me.
Bubba - I was crying when I wrote that line.
Originally Posted by Adam04
The more you fight it and try to figure it out, the more energy you waste on it. As you said, embrace it, let it flow. Like meditation. Your outter image of yourself senses these things, but deep down you'll know. Maybe it's not full blown grief, but there are tinges of pain. This is okay. I don't think this works in black and white or hot and cold. We want to bring it to bearable. When emotions are bearable, we can thrive.
I guess this is what I mean by riding the waves. Though you put it so much better. This is my intention for today and all the days until it becomes a reality.
Originally Posted by Adam04
when I talk about my W I don't mean to put her down or say she is a bad mother. And when I commented about the yelling, I was not trying to link any semblance there. I hope I didn't come across a certain way about that and if I did, I apologize. As parents, raising voices, yelling, and sometimes having to spank, ground, and all the hard stuff, It comes with the territory. I've also been the disciplinarian when it came to the tough love with the boys, wonder how that will play out too...
I did not take your comments as judging and your suggestions were sound ones. I have implemented some. I have been too focused on 'fixing' D12 I forgot to really listen to her. I say this is because whenever the meltdowns happen we are rushed so the situation is already fraught, but there are things I could do to mitigate the meltdowns before they happen. This was the mistake I made with my H - I wanted to 'fix' us but didn't realise we needed to step away from the 'tension' first. I need to make being organised a 'pact' between us so she feels some responsibility and she learns to 'own' her actions (or lack of them). Punishment and bribery (which was what we were doing) was not working.
Originally Posted by Adam04
We're humans on either side trying to deal with this in our own ways, your H and you, my W and I. I know with my W and I there is a genuine lack of communication. I've probably said it before but she is a runner and avoids conflict. She is not someone who would spend the time to try and talk it out. She would say there are too many words spoken. You have that bond with your D12 and you're aware of the situation, giving space. My S11 is at that stage and it's now hard for him to open up. I am afraid that between them two when there is an issue, she may not know how to handle it.
My H has a short fuse. He reacts quickly and is focused on apportioning blame before resolving what ever has gone wrong. Everything is a crises. Mountains out of molehills. Then, later, he would pretend like it never happened. When we first got together I could temper him. I could make him look at things from other peoples point of view. Towards the end I lost that power. I would watch him yell at the kids over nothing. Berating them for 20 minutes for not tidying their rooms or for being unable to find their phones. I could only look at him in silence - hoping my look of disapproval was enough. As aside, at BD, he said to me that sometimes I would look at him like I hated him. When he was done yelling at the kids, I would go and sit with them in their rooms. Silence. He has changed though. He knows about his short fuse (those were his words) and he tries to restrain himself. Your W will find a balance. She will falter, as we all do, but, even though she has been a pretty rubbish W, I sense she is a good person and a good mum.
Originally Posted by Adam04
My W tells me she still cares about me.
Of course she does. You cannot love someone for years, raise children together, sleep in the same bed and not care about them. She is trying to be nice because she cares about you. She thinks she is doing the right thing for her and she is trying to now minimise the damage of that choice on those she cares about. She cannot (for now) come back. Her mind will not let her. But, warped as it is, there is a sort of honour in it. She wants to do the right thing given that she cannot do the right thing.
Originally Posted by Adam04
Also I would not discount the benefits of drinking entirely, namely allowing for a good nights sleep when its one of them days. I do agree there are dangers when flirting with alcoholism as escapism.
I am a social drinker. Always have been. It's just I have been social A LOT lately. I have made an active decision to not socialise as much, and when I do, know and stick to my limits.
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
TBH... I think the reason you are still stuck is because the four of you spend so much time together. From what you write, it sounds as if things are not that different than before except you each have your own residence. I know you are trying to keep things as normal as possible for your girls but, at the same time, I think it is holding you back. Your H has not yet felt what it is like to lose you. He can still come and go as he pleases and even though you are DBing, I don’t think he is very worried at all that you are not a solid Plan B for him. He needs to be worried that he is losing you if he is ever going to think about R.
You are right. We are still very much attached. Day by day I let go a little more. I don't hang around when he is here (I make myself scarce) and I say no to many of the invites to 'family' things. I don't do this to get a reaction - it just feels natural not to go to everything. I chose when I will participate and when I won't. He wanted me to come round to his flat tonight to look at something the children had done and I said I had stomach cramps so will look at when the kids come home tomorrow. Sometimes he looks like he is waiting for me to say "I'll come too". But, he still looks at the house as his and me as his W (when it suits him). The house things for now I don't know what to do about. I on the other hand have become less available.
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I rarely see my H. Probably in a week, I will see him about 10 minutes total. Recently, I have really cut down on my texts about the kids. Both of these things have REALLY helped me with detaching. Am I 100% there yet? I’d be an idiot if I said yes. But... I think I am at 85% at least and that has only been in the last couple weeks that I have gotten there and I think it is because I’ve gone as NC as possible.
This ^^^ and your other journal entries of late have been wonderful. I sense a real contentment in your words and I just want to reach across the screen and give you a great big hug.
