Hi KAW, I'm REALLY enjoying having you in the same 'time zone'
Quote: For some reason of which I have yet seen explained there is a definate lag before the S fully comprehends the impact their infidelity has on their M partner. I have seen some sitches here where that lag can take up to a year or so.
I so need to hear this! So do Deb, BnB and the others. That it is a process the WASs need to go through, and that it WILL take time. A year - wow. OK, I can dig in for a long stretch - my stamina is quite ferocious
KAW, the fact that you are here to gently point these out is such a God send, I know no one else can take away the pain. And you know, I am certain in my heart that I am becoming a better person as a result of this experience and the way I am CHOOSING to handle it. At almost 40, I am also learning the true depths of friendships, even cyber ones
Quote: I always get so much to think about from your thread, you are so wise and doing so well
Thank you for the compliments (Pam – did you see that, I can accept them graciously )
Deb, having you validate what I am doing is such great support – and likewise, I have picked up so many pointers from your posts too – many of your speculative jibes about why your H may be doing something have triggered revelations for me
Quote: Hi KAW, I'm REALLY enjoying having you in the same 'time zone'
Lately, I'm not sure what "zone" I'm in? ... but its always fun to chat ... however, I'm gonna be off for the next couple of days ... then I'm back here for the weekend.
Hi PIB - Thanks so much for the input - it is great to see the same issue from a different perspective. Understanding truly comes in layers, doesn't it?
Quote: And the words he said did not match the meaning of the same words to me. Lost in translation between manspeak and womanspeak
Absolutely. Communications is something that H and I need to work on, we often take away different meanings and conclusions from the same discussion
Quote: In any case...I think the key is in telling him that I know he's not the bad guy...that I just need reassurance...that I'm scared. But I think to begin with, I went to him about panic attacks that I was having in regards to others...issues that had nothing to do with him. And when he reassured me, I was quick to thank him for making me feel safe.
This is the key, for me. I refuse to pretend I need help. What I am comfortable doing is asking for help or support when I genuinely feel the need. For me this means re-setting my expectations of myself. Slowly
I have teary moments in the privacy of the bathroom, or when I'm driving alone to/from work, this is no picnic. But I do take comfort from the fact that things seem to be moving in the right direction.
Definitely moving in the right direction...
I'm glad the "itchy butt" theory helps a bit...kudos to Ellie (kml) for that one!
It's clear you're doing all the right things and imho, when h wakes up and "gets it" he'll be so grateful for the love and compassion that you have shown him.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Somehow I got myself a really amusing visualization of giving myself a flat tire along the interstate so that I could call Mr. Wonderful to come to my rescue. Well, I know full well that I'd probably pick a time where he had a work crisis, and my knight in shining armor would arrive in his pickup truck PISSED OFF!
Rescuing is not necessarily a tangible act. Nor is being vulnerable. You've forced me to think about something new which I guess I'm feeling compelled to share so I can better illustrate this.
Before me, Mr. Wonderful was a rescuer. He chose weak women who made very poor choices and suffered because of them. He deliberately entered emotional Rs with women who were damaged goods... and yes, I see this very clearly. I also addressed this with MC in my last session with him.
You're wondering how in the world he set his sights on me? Well, here's the deal. I had run away from VA to CA... I moved to Silicon Valley, where I knew NO ONE and started a job that really turned out to be the suckiest thing I'd ever done. My brother had gone to jail, I was still the codependent mediator between my parents, I had no friends out there and no support system. OH, and the love of my life was living in Scotland for 3 years. I was a wreck.
I was such a wreck that I had damaged very long term friendships with others who loved me very much. And I was bone deep weary and lonely.
Mr. Wonderful befriended me--we worked together. He saw me as he did his previous girlfriends... an emotionally wrecked woman, but one who looked hot in a mini skirt! Little did he know that I was in C, I was attending weekly Alanon meetings and I was journaling my feelings. I was also reaching out to others and learning how to make friends without the benefit of them coming to me (it's always been that way for me).
I might have been emotionally hurt at the time he set his sights in my direction, but I was not weak and I was the only person who could pick myself up. And I was taking the measures to get there.
We were friends for 3 months before we became sexually involved. Before our R took that turn and when it took that turn, I was sharing my hurts and vulnerabilities with him (to the extent I was aware). Furthermore, I was wearing them on my sleeve, out for everyone to see. He saw himself as my rescuer: my knight who could build me up and make me whole again.
This film got a different ending, though, thanks to our unmatched expectations. I understood that I was my own rescuer. And over time, he got that too--and there was only one way to go from that pedestal he put me on. I got knocked off for not being who he thought I was.
Being vulnerable means sharing that part of ourselves that is wounded. Being vulnerable means that when the other person offers you the same, that you hold that information dear and never use it against them. Being vulnerable means that when you show a side of you that hurts and the other person soothes that hurt with an action or word, you are grateful for it rather than dismiss them.
Like Rottzilla, I grew up in a time where feminism was rampant. My own mother was turned down from a career in archeology because she was told over and over, "you are a woman, and you will never make it in this field." By the time she had kids, she realized that she should have not taken NO for an answer. And because of that, she wanted me and my sister to dream big, and not allow any man to get in our way.
That meant not buying into the knight in shining armor theory. That meant making goals for myself and setting out to achieve them. It's hard to have it all. I'm not discounting the fact that I think men have it tough too. (I do.) But I learned that there was nobody more capable of taking care of me than me.
What a life!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Well I also believe that any manufactured call for rescue would be a mistake. My h is rather schizoid in his response to my calls for help. He resents any gender based assumptions about tasks and he seems to resent any expectation that he become a rescuer. At the same time, he jumps at any opportunity to rescue any friend or stranger that calls with a computer problem, etc.
As far as including him in decision making, he seems to run hot and cold on whether or not I should simply decide things on my own.
What I have come to accept is that he wants to help ONLY when I am not truly NEEDING the help!!?? It is very confusing but that seems to be the reality. Also, when he sees me attempt a task...putting up a shelf, or starting the barbeque...he will jump in to complete it. But if I first ask, well then he will sit on the request.
SO it would NOT be helpful to me to pretend to be helpless. What works for me is to validate the support that I get and state that it feels good to know that I can rely on him should I need his help. He really responds to that.
I think there are ways in which we can acknowledge and validate our RELIANCE on their partnership or presence that may be as beneficial as actually calling on them for help.
Quote: What I have come to accept is that he wants to help ONLY when I am not truly NEEDING the help!!?? It is very confusing but that seems to be the reality. Also, when he sees me attempt a task...putting up a shelf, or starting the barbeque...he will jump in to complete it. But if I first ask, well then he will sit on the request.
Have you read "men are from mars, women are from venus"? He goes into a lot of detail about how it's not just the request for help but how the request is phrased that is key (like, asking "can you do this" is a big no-no apparently whereas "would you do this" is aok). Also, he suggests that men will often say no to the request but then if given time will react positively (the key apparently is not rushing in and rephrasing your request or something or other). Finally, in my own experience, if h interprets my request as something he may FAIL at (like, not live up to my expectations) then he's very resistent to doing it -- even if to me it seems as though it's something he'll succeed at.
I recommend the "Men are from Mars.." book -- it's an interesting men/women dictionary
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Hi everyone, I'm on a business trip tomorrow, back Friday, wish I was not going Just wanted to post a quick update, H handed over to me the token OW gave him. He looked me in the eyes, and said, "I can see this is distressing you, and I'm no longer that attached to it, so here it is for you to do as you will" All I could say was thank you. Still looking for my jaw somewhere on the floor.
We had quite a discussion over dinner, and I just need to think through all that was said, before I can journal out exactly what just happened here.
Sage, I've dug out the Mars/Venus book and plan to read it on the plane. I'm sure like DR, it bears revision
Going to escape my sitch for a while, and visit, before logging off for a couple of days. Hugs, Slowly
Little did he know that I was in C, I was attending weekly Alanon meetings and I was journaling my feelings. I was also reaching out to others and learning how to make friends without the benefit of them coming to me (it's always been that way for me).
Just wanted to post a quick update, H handed over to me the token OW gave him. He looked me in the eyes, and said, "I can see this is distressing you, and I'm no longer that attached to it, so here it is for you to do as you will" All I could say was thank you. Still looking for my jaw somewhere on the floor.