Steve, I actually agree with you and AS that "true" remorse comes later, possibly many months or years, especially after they see things more clearly and begin to acknowledge how bad things were. I guess that's true for all of us; when we remove ourselves from a situation and reflect back on it, we can see it more objectively. My concern for Ovr is that his W is still in a wayward mindset and hasn't reached step one.

Ovr, thank you for the clarity. I'll admit, I'm not sure what the best advice is. Have you read Sandi's new post on piecing? When you read the list of conditions, where do you see your W in that list? Is she at all? Becuase I think the starting point of reconciliation is when your WW comes to you and shows vulnerability and wants to atone. That in my opinion is step one and cannot be skipped over.

It seems she is back physically, but there is still an element of denial about her part in this. That is why I said she still has a waywardness to her. Even if she's not currently with OM, she still hasn't owned up to her mistakes or that it was a mistake. My fear is also that she could run right back at any time. I think eventually you will tire of these games and you may even be the one to give up. That might be the point -- when she realizes she is loosing you -- that she is willing to commit herself to you and "do whatever it takes."

I think you have your work cut out for you here. Unfortunately the way things progressed, she has become accustomed to doing whatever she wants (disrespecting you) and knowing she can still have you there. I think it's going to be harder than if you had started out with firmer boundaries. My advice to you now would be to continue with the DB rules, the 180s and especially the GAL. I don't think R talks or MC will help at this point. If she throws a fit about it, you can tell her in a matter of fact way that you have been thinking a lot and you need more of a commitment from her first. Then you can end the convo and create some space. Less words are better than more! It's okay for her to feel frustrated and wonder what she needs to do. If she is committed to you, she will do the work. Does that feel like something you can do?

Blu

“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela