What direction NOW? pt. 2

[sandi2]

Hi Max, I'll try share my thoughts about the questions you have.

When the WW cries and begs and asks what to do, she wants to be a family again, etc ... How do you know if she really is committed and just doesn't get better at hiding?

Was she crying b/c she was remorseful, or was she crying b/c she was caught and may be losing her family?

I'd first look to see the marital status at the time of the begging/pleading. Was she living with her H? Was she living IHS, or was she physically separated from her H? Did she and her H fully reconcile after she had an A, and did he hold her accountable (transparency) and did she go through affair withdrawals?

Next, I'd check out the timing of when this took place. What was happening that may have brought her to this place? Did she get caught the second time by her H? Did her H get fed up and she sees him walking away for good? Has something caused her eyes to open and now she has gone willingly to her H to humbly apologize and ask for another chance? Has she said she's willing to do whatever it takes to save the M?

I believe there is a difference in a W who is genuinely recovering from waywardness........and one who fakes it. True repentance is a good start, but sometimes a WW can be such a great actress it takes the Almighty to know her heart. So, humans can only evaluate what they observe in her.

IMHO, there are three things that has to line up consistently for a sufficient amount of time. Her words, her behavior, and her attitude. This is the measuring stick to determine if she really wants to be a faithful W and do whatever is necessary to save her M and family. Any woman with enough sense will know that once she's caught, she is on some type of trial basis and should show her best efforts. However, if her head/heart is preoccupied with self and OM, she's going to slip somewhere. It will show in her face/eyes; body language; voice; attitude; the way she responds to her H (and sometimes to her children); refusing to follow the transparency plan; her lack of willingness to do what her H needs/wants; her lack of cooperation with his leadership in the home/family; her lack of respect for her H in front of the children, and/or others; no sexual touching (in some cases) or no open mouth deep kisses (in some cases); her coldness and disinterest in her H/MR. Her true motives are selfish She may be able to fake it for a short period, but not indefinitely. Not if her H knows to watch for these signs. There are other things that might be detected when the W is hiding an A or making contact with her AP. Looking at those things that first caused suspicion when she was in an A.

Throught these past 3 years there were moments I questioned certain incidents but she said i was mistaken and also that that part of her life was a messed up period and she moved on. She even went on to say the OM never contacted her again etc when the subject came up.

A few months ago I discovered by chance she was sending likes to some photos in his instagram account during these past 3 years and vice versa with the occasional text. Not all of the photos but each year at least 3-4 photos which obviously means there was continuous contact. The only non negotiable condition.

Did you require her to follow a transparency plan after the first affair? Were there any MC sessions after her first A? You can't just give a WW another chance without making certain requirements, b/c nothing changes for her. Even if she slacks off contacting OM, she won't go through the process of affair withdrawal, get counseling, have a workable plan for repairing the damage, etc. In other words. she has to work to get her H and MR back again. Otherwise, she's likely to not fully value what she has. It'd be like handing a penny to a spoiled, rich kid. So my question is did she have to do anything uncomfortable in order to keep her H, or were you just too happy to get her back from OM? There is a reason she needs to work to get you.

After calling her out she now says what can she do to make it right, it was a dark moment she fell into and during the summer she began to realize she loved me and wants us to be a family and even move away to another city ot country.

Is she telling you that is why she continued contacting OM....b/c she fell into a dark moment? This is why there needs to be therapy whenever a couple is trying to heal from an A. Whether or not she had a dark moment, you can't have a MR where you are concerned about her next dark moment and what she may choose to do. She needs to become educated in how this works on her emotions, how affairs are addictive, and how affairs play out. She needs to know the reality, instead of her fantasy dreams. There needs to be some type of therapy and follow up program to keep her on track so that she won't fall back into that old behavior. You can't just give another chance, and expect her to have the tools to deal with the emotional fallout of her A, Even if she is quite smart or has a string of letters behind her name, the recovering WW needs to be educated in much the same way as you were educated when you came to the board.

How do you react to this. How do trust them again? Can you trust them?

It depends on what I mentioned in the previous paragraph. Plus, you may not be able to just stop verifying her phone/computer activities. The first time you suspected something didn't measure up, you should have addressed it., You can't accept her claims of being in your head, or whatever. She should either give some type of evidence or at the lest, a detailed account that would explain what happened. The H's biggest mistakes are not making her work to get the MR back; not enforcing a transparency plan; and letting things slide when his gut is telling him something isn't right.

TBH I feel like walking out and all I can say is that IHS does in effect NOT work and that working on piecing is harder than anyone gives it credit for but firstly make sure both are piecing.

I think I see the problem. You can't be IHS and in Piecing simultaneously. Now days, I discourage IHS b/c I've never seen it produce a successful reconciliation with a WW.

I worked on myself, did become a better person and father and partner.

Maybe so, but what did she do, Max? Did she do any work on herself? Did she ever even commit to doing whatever was necessary to save the MR? I have my doubts, if you were still living IHS.

How do you make sure you are not fooled again without being over controlling?

You know that's the battle cry of every WW, don't you? "You just want to control my life!" You start by finding your b@lls and stand up to her and tell her that there will be no more IHS, and if she wants a second chance, she'll have to agree to your terms.......or you are out of there. It's that simple. You start calling the shots, instead of dodging her bullet all the time.

After calling her out she now says what can she do to make it right, it was a dark moment she fell into and during the summer she began to realize she loved me and wants us to be a family and even move away to another city ot country.

Oh really? Did she start sharing your bed? Was she giving you passionate open mouth tongue kisses? If not, then she's lying. At what point did she realize she loved you? Let me guess, when you called her out about contacting OM.