I had a GAL event tonight. Went mostly well. I'm spending the night in a hotel room now and saw Vanilla's post. I had the talk with WW a few days ago about me forgiving myself and she was upset at how I can do that first and not forgive WW. I cannot right now. I don't know when I will. I don't know how I will.
V's quotes and my responses follow:
Originally Posted by Vanilla
It isn't our job to forgive anything at all for another. It takes away another's higher power and it's between them and their higher power. Just as our forgiveness for ourselves is ours alone for us to manage. We aren't a higher power and can't be for another. Giving up the need to forgive releases us to love and also stops the blockages to connection.
What we think of them and what they think of us is personal to each and none of the others business.
So, give up the need to forgive, it truly won't release you. It's detachment that will do so and what will release you from revenge, bitterness and anger? Letting go. That allows you to move on and turn the other cheek.
I am no where close to releasing any of those feelings. The pain is still too immense and when I find out more details, the wounds open up anew and the feelings of revenge, bitterness, and anger come up anew. And it's not so much that I still want R (I'm going to call it R2 from now on) with WW. It's more just how much unfathomable damage WW has caused me. And the pain is doubled when our WW was threatening me with severe consequences for cheating on me (WW spins it saying we are S and she is not cheating. BS. And I'm making it clear to my circle of friends that is what she is indeed cheating)
I know..."You have to let it go, Pain." I know I need to. And I hope I will someday. But in the foreseeable future, that is not even an option.
Originally Posted by Vanilla
The popular wisdom is that forgiveness releases and the popular wisdom is just that: a belief which can be unfounded. Forgiveness of self causes release after atonement, forgiveness of others binds us to their actions and pains inflicted on us. It is up to us to manage our reactions to the actions and do that which assists us in our growth. That is a big enough challenge on it's own.
It's huge. I have recently fully forgiven myself for my contribution and it has allowed me to further learn, heal, and grow from this.
Originally Posted by Vanilla
However remembering is necessary for pause and self love. It is the new boundaries that we set that helps us to release our feelings, insecurity and makes us strong. The need to forgive is weak.
I hope to get some more insight on this. I'd like some clarification on this statement. Maybe I am not understanding completely.
Originally Posted by Vanilla
Forgiveness puts us one up on the other, it inhibits the Karma bus from acting. It creates a place where forgiveness is necessary and trust a requirement. Can they earn your trust back? What a difficult position you put yourself in determining if trust can be 'won' back. Let it go.
Have I forgiven the G? Absolutely not my job to do so, have I let go of my need to forgive? Absolutely. And it is the most releasing and healing thing of all, to be neutral and calm. Free of any negative poison, gone. Would I give the G any thought these days? Only in these pages where my story is written. I don't even block him on FB or any other way because I truly don't care if he or his little BIT haunt my SM (which they do) , It's truly freeing not to even be bothered. I recommend releasing yourself and being free of that need of forgiving. Instead observe if the atoning actions match the words. Not your job to punish, let WW higher power do that.
Again, I have no reason to forgive WW right now. None. I need to see remorse on her end to even consider it.
Originally Posted by Vanilla
What is the opposite of love? It is indifference, it is letting go, it is moving on and not looking back. It is starting anew, afresh with a clean slate.
Originally Posted by Vanilla
That alone makes the returning wayward look to atone their actions. So if asked have you forgiven me? Say, that's not my job to do. That gives the wayward behaviour no get out at all, none. That holds the wayward to account in full. It is strong. Forgive yourself for everything connected, waywardness is the waywards choice in full, it holds them accountable for it in full with their own higher power.
Wise words to remember for if WW and I have this conversation again.
Originally Posted by Vanilla
For you that new start may mean WW, I doubt you will ever forget those dark days, they changed you.
The pain is fresh, the scars are permanent. I will never be the same again. I will never trust the same again. I will never love the same again. I will always be questioning two, three, four, five, beyond five times to ensure the truth. And even then I will always be skeptical.
Originally Posted by Vanilla
If your R2 is to have a chance then let WW forgive herself, do the work and atone.
Originally Posted by Vanilla
You don't need the Karma bus to run her over and to be in the driving seat. Be Meh about it all. If WW steps over your boundary then you enforce it and walk away and that is clear because you are strong. That can never be the same. You can observe but not absorb.
Vanilla, I do hope you get the chance to gloss over my sitch and answer some of the questions I am posing with this post.
