HH, I so know what you're talking about. It is the approach itself that triggers the chattiness, not HOW you approach him. The only thing I found helpful in my situation is to cover his mouth with kisses when he started talking. That upped the pressure but it shut him up.
Btw, what is WITH LD guys and massage oil? I bought a bottle 2 years ago and it has maybe a 1/4 inch gone. He joked last night that he will give me a massage any time I like...well, first I have to ask, then remind him, then get pissy when he forgets or tries to back out, then wake him up when he falls asleep, then INSIST that I get it and get huffy, and then............THEN folks, Honey gets her back rub. Heavy, you might be able to relate to this since you just had a babe. Last night, my nipples were so itchy I was coming out of my skin (breasts get bigger, skin stretches and itches). So I told him before bed that I needed some cream on my nipples. When I got into bed, he inquired if I had taken care of it. I said no and that I thought he could hand me the massage oil (which sits on HIS nightstand, where I insist it stays, lol). He held the bottle and even offered to "tip" it for me but he would not participate. Within 10 seconds, he was snoring.
Now, I understand that not all people are turned on by the same things, but come ON. Here is my unadulterated, uncut thought: If he wants me to remain sexually excited by him, then he needs to attempt to be sexually excitING. I do not have infinite amounts of desire for him.
And you know what? I am not mad that he didn't want to join in; I am mad because he plays this pretend game in which he acts as if he doesn't understand when something is supposed to be sexual. This, he thinks, get him "out" of having to participate. I am going to call him on this.
Wow, I really got off on a tangent. You shouldn't have mentioned massage oil. LOL
I have about half the training needed to be certified in massage, which was a big part of my life before getting married.
My wife took $3,000.00 worth of massage classes one year, I think largely because she wanted to do this for me. I got one massage out of it. She spent weeks giving and receiving massages from other people.
For quite a while I was exchanging massages with people after we got married. But most guys don't want to exchange a massage with a guy, and women can be too distracting when you're feeling sex-starved. I paid for massage for a while too, but the person I was getting massages from moved and I haven't found a good person since.
There are people who are HD for sex and LD for massage and vice versa. It's a very different kind of touch. I'm very HD for both. But ... if our massage oil has an expiration date, it's long gone by now.
That was an excellent post because you characterized my W (and probably a bunch of LDs) exactly. My W does the exact same thing. If you read my big dialog with her on the "Walking the Knife Edge", she even claimed to think that "initiation" didn't really imply anything sexual...WTF?
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Part of my problem is my LDH is not a very "cuddly" person either. He is hyper,skinny and subject to skin allergies. This means when we're not having sex, the only "touch" I get is of the variety they could show on TV in the 1950s.
He claims to be allergic to most varieties of oils/lubricants so I've given up on that issue.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Yeah, Dave, what I found out with my husband is that I have to use the most absolutely correct and clinical language with him. He is such a smart man, and yet his grasp of what I am saying seems to be nonexistent. The clinical language makes everything VERY non-intimate but it leaves no room for doubt.
For instance, I think you should say to your wife: "When I asked for your initiation, I was speaking of initiating sexual intercourse. What kind of initiation were you thinking of?"
Phrases like 'sexual intercourse' give me the creeps but there it is. Anything less and he's confused by what I am requesting of him.
Perhaps your wife thought you were referring to initiating affection...? That is possible. I know that I have a tendency to cloak my language when speaking to H because I know that it makes him uncomfortable and graphic language makes him feel pressured and like a failure. So I will say things like, I want to be closer to you. I am not satisfied with our frequency, do you think we can try twice a week?
Well in the absence of me saying, SEX or INTERCOURSE or MAKING LOVE he could very well interpret it as me wanting him to be more affectionate.
So that's my advice. Get clinical with her.
If you already WERE that way and she still misunderstood, well then that is a whole 'nother ball of wax!
Yeah, Dave, what I found out with my husband is that I have to use the most absolutely correct and clinical language with him. He is such a smart man, and yet his grasp of what I am saying seems to be nonexistent.
This is hilarious. I have finally stopped taking her "selective intelligence" as a form of rejection (thanks to PM). I now empathize with the fact that her subconscious is trying to undermine her conscious. The more we maintain an environment where their subconscious is battling their conscious, the sooner they will start to reflect inwards and be more motivated to examine themselves.
By "maintaining the environment", I mean the steady, blunt pressure of differentiation in ourselves where we calmly, lovingly state our needs...even if it's in clinical terms.
honey, You are absolutely right on the whole "intercourse" statement (though it sounds like my dad teaching me the birds and bees a month before my wedding...yuck). I started thinking about how my comments last night might not be interpreted correctly because I didn't define her understanding of "something sexual".
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: I now empathize with the fact that her subconscious is trying to undermine her conscious. The more we maintain an environment where their subconscious is battling their conscious, the sooner they will start to reflect inwards and be more motivated to examine themselves.
Dave, it's even more complex than that. As Schnarch explains it, it's more like a battle between the 3 parts of our brain - the "Reptilian" brain (the small part at the top of the spine), the "Mammalian brain" (the Cortex, or the part between the back and the front of the brain), and the Neo-Cortex (the front-most and most recently-developed - and most "human" part). The Reptilian brain is most involved in basic functions like respiration etc. (autonomic responses), but is also involved in the fight-or-flight response. When we are under stress, the tendancy is for that part of the brain to rule the day. The mammalian part of the brain is capable of pair-bonding behavior and care of young, but it's the neo-cortex that, if it is brought into play, makes us capable of TRUE intimacy, and being at our most Human. Hope this isn't too "clinical"...
