Divorce inevitable

[job]

When your wife rants, listen and then say "I'm sorry you feel that way". Do not argue w/her. About the furniture that you took. She can move things around so that there are no "holes" where furniture was. She's upset and feelings guilt and shame because she sees the gaps where things once were. As for the mount for the TV, I wouldn't remove it. She is in rare form and wants to rant about everything. Just listen, validate how she feels at the moment and then let it go. It's all about her and what she is realizing about what life will be like.

They do not understand divorce. They think everything will remain the same, i.e., furniture will remain and nothing moved, money coming in and yes, us still taking care of and or fixing things for them. They do not realize that divorce means splitting up belongings and learning how to deal w/reality and living on their own.

Keep the focus on the kids and on yourself. She's not a happy person and no matter what you say or do, it will never be enough. Accept that you can't fix her because you didn't break her....she has to fix herself.

Dig deeper for patience.

[Hamburg]

Went to pick up kids to stay at my place and was met with W crying and demanding to talk. I declined and she cornered me. Told me I was immature and need to grow up and accept things (referring to me hiring PI). I didn't admit to anything. She then asked why I'm putting on an act by not liking her or talking to her. I told her it was true, I do not like her and have no reason to talk to her, other than the kids or finances. She cried even more and stated we need to get along for the kids sake. I agreed to get along in front of the kids. She then told me to knock before entering and I explained it is still my house too and I will come and go as I please. She wanted to talk more but I grabbed the kids and left.

Kids asked me why I made mommy cry by sending her a mean text message the other day. I did no such thing. Then they asked why I have all the money and wont give mommy any. I had to explain things in simple terms and tried to help them understand I was not doing these things. I am not saying anything negative about her to my kids. I need to get them in counseling ASAP.

She seems like her world is starting to cave in around her. The PI has info that will bury her but I feel I should wait, as too much at one time may set her off even more.

[peacetoday]

Tough situation with the kids
she may use them without realizing it because she wants more

I would get with a therapist asap for you to determine the best way to handle wife,
for the well being of the kids
If that means giving more right now
like keeping the peace in the house...personally I wouldn't rock the boat to much more

as I said, I walking on eggshells to please XH to keep the peace
and for me it really helped because the goal is to transition you and the kids to this New lifestyle as a split
family
you may have to be nicer to her--I would say I pretended-because I felt all the same things you are feeling to xh
but I would not say or act on them

this is for the kids
she is going to spiral out of control no matter what you do or how you handle it
but this could buy you a little time- especially for the kids-

[job]

I agree w/Peace...get your kids into therapy as soon as possible. There may come a time, very soon, that you will need to have that talk w/the wife about bad mouth talking about you. She's using the kids to get to you and yes, to turn them against you. Try to explain things to them in the simplest way and then let it go. You do not want your children involved in what is going on w/their mother. If she brings up matters that are between you in front of the children again, just say "wife, if you want to talk, we can arrange a meet up and talk, but I will not discuss our business in front of the children". You could also say, "I will be happy to talk to you after the holidays and when the children are not here to hear our discussions".

I would advise my lawyer of what has been happening and the conversation that took place w/the children. For the time being, be the best actor that you can be. You may like her behavior, but she is still the mother of your children. Try to smile and be upbeat around her for the time being. The old saying "kill them w/kindness" is very true in a situation like you are dealing with at the moment.

I realize that she is living in the home that you both have lived in, but you moved out, therefore, it has become her space. Since she mentioned knocking or using the doorbell, then do so. It is now her space, as well as the children's. You wouldn't want her barging in at your new space w/o knocking. Honor her wishes for the time being and respect the boundaries she is putting in place. She will need to do the same if you put boundaries in place.

I know you are not happy w/her behavior, but you are going to have to dig deeper for patience and be the best actor you can be for now. Get a rubber band and put it on your wrist and every time you are tempted to say something, snap that baby and feel the sting. That should turn your focus to that wrist.

[Hamburg]

I am nice to her in front of the kids. I have to muster tremendous amount of restraint to be nice to her when it's just us two. Deep down, I feel so sorry for her and am starting to miss her too. I have even thought of giving her a christmas gift. Nothing personal but a small gift in the Holiday spirit. I'm torn about it.

[Rita]

My H also badmouths me to the kids. It's very important to get a custody agreement in place and have that be part of it. My mother did that to me with my dad and it devastated me for life.

But I do want to tell you, Hamburg, that you sound like you are behaving rashly yourself. I have been standing for over five years, and my H just filed for D this September. To me it looks like you went from 0 to 1000000 in five seconds flat. You need to slow down. You are trying to make decisions constantly and put out every fire. I know what you are doing,I used to do that, though not in the same way as I am committed to standing for my M no matter what. But I did try to fix a lot of things, and it was because I did not want to suffer. Stop being afraid of suffering. This thing is going to hurt no matter what you do. You will reach a point where you either have a lot more compassion and patience or you will get bitter. It's your choice.

You have a little quiet now so you are able to see that you do miss your W and you are not sure of anything, not even if you want to get her an X-Mas gift. You need to sit in your grief, stop trying to get control of the feelings you have. DnJ is right about this -- your feelings are fleeting. Figure out on a piece of paper what your beliefs are, what kind of a man you are, irrespective of what your W or anyone else does.

To put it dramatically -- How would you behave in a concentration camp, for example?

On that note -- if you want to think deeply about that, read the wonderful book, Man's Search for Meaning, by Victor Frankl. This book will give you a lot of perspective.

Do you realize that your W could go through an affair and even a remarriage and then come out of this and want to come home?

You might not want that, you might not want to endure the suffering that is to come, but I just think you need to step back and stop trying to fix everything. This is not something you can cure with medicine, you can't be a doctor here. The only medicine for her is time and your forgiveness. For you, the only medicine is enjoying life on your own and keeping a door in your heart open in case, if you want to.

As far as X-Mas-- your children want you both there on X-Mas morning. I have endured everything you have endured and far worse with my H. But I invite him to every holiday. He doesn't always come, but I ask God to help me FEEL forgiveness, and if I don't get that feeling, I imagine how I would act if I did forgive him, and I am able to have as normal a time as a family as an MLCer allows. Get to your house early on X-Mas morning and make everyone pancakes and leave a gift for your W under the tree. Get her something you know she would like and focus on having fun without worrying about being humiliated by her choosing someone else or whatever she is doing. Make memories with your kids that are good ones.

I know you aren't a Christian, but if you ever want to try to wrap your head around what forgiveness could look like, I recommend rejoice marriage ministries. That has helped me so much, and when I started reading their devotionals, I was not a Christian! So it can help even if you ignore the faith part.

[Hamburg]

Thanks. Our D was filed in July and remains stagnant now. I am a patient person but an affair is beyond my limits for what is acceptable in a M. I had to move out of the home because I felt myself slipping. I did not want the kids to see that. I have restraint but any outburst on my part could be bad for my career as well. This states medical board is very strict.

Her attorney has stated she wants it over within weeks. I want to try a separation for months. We still have the house and that needs to be sold prior to finalizing anything. My hopes are this gives us time and space we need. I've gone dark except for communication about the kids. I feel the A will peak during this time as well, which is beyond my control.

I hope to have Xmas at the house with the kids and will discuss with her.

[Gordie]

Hamburg

I feel your pain

There are some who are better fakers than me and can smile through the affair of their spouse

I could not do that

And it sounds like you cannot do that either

And that is okay

Only you know your boundaries

In reading the MWD book she talks about forgiveness being for you

For some like DNJ and Gerda that comes quickly

For some it takes a long time

For some it never comes

But a step in the right direction for you is acceptance

I feel how justifiably upset you are

So good for you for knowing yourself

Removing yourself from the situation

Going dark except kids and finances

Re your latest interaction

I would set up a time for you to see w privately

And set an agenda for yourself of things to discuss for the kids

Set expectations at zero

She may not be able to have this discussion rationally

But you need to discuss some things like not bad mouthing the other to the kids

And agree if she asked you to knock that you knock

It is her place now

And you have your place

[DnJ]

Hello Hamburg

I am still following long, reading all the excellent advice you are receiving.

I believe that for you, moving out is best. From what you say about your inability to accept an affair, it is a good decision. You need to remove yourself to heal, to accept. Try to see that the acceptance you’re working towards is not saying an affair is acceptable. (ain’t english easy to understand )

You are correct, an affair is not acceptable for a M. She doesn’t consider you and her married. She has checked out of that, all it is now is a piece of paper - sorry buddy. You need to emotionally and intellectually accept what has happened. That does not make it acceptable, does not condone it, does not forgive it - it just accepts.

That is you do not deny, anger, bargin, or get depressed about it. The last stage of grief - acceptance. You will get to a place where it doesn’t bother you, a place where you are not grieving. Here one is not unfeeling, you still get sad, miss them and the good times, you just get it - it is what it is.

Hamburg you’re doing fine.

I will reiterate a bit. Feeling are fleeting. They will change.

The A you find so distasteful, why? Lots of bad feelings I am sure. How about we just put them aside for a moment. Again why? Just intellectually, sans emotions. I’m sure you can find plenty for reasons here, there are a lot.

So at this point you have some feelings and some thoughts. Which of those two do you think you can understand better, feelings or thoughts? Can accept?

Purely intellectual pursuits have no emotions attached to them. So, you can see, separately, intellectually, why you are having difficultly, why this is so unacceptable to you. From here you will recognize why you feel the way you do. Your thoughts do affect your feelings and the other way around.

With recognition comes acceptance. Not condoning, just accepting. Once you start accepting your thoughts, the feelings will start follow along, everything will start to ramp down. This does take time, I just thought you might like to see a possible effort you could pursue, if you choose to.

Your choices will lead to better or bitter. You will not regret pursuing kindness and compassion. Couple that with understanding, and forgiveness is within reach. It is really all a series of choices.

Please understand, I am not belittling the effort it requires to find forgiveness - there is a lot of self work and awareness to get through. As much as forgiveness is for you, it also is created from within you. Finding forgiveness is really finding yourself, being understanding, accepting, kind, and compassionate. A pretty worthy pursuit. Perhaps a pretty good heading if you were wanting to choose one, a heading to strive for, and a path to walk while healing.

Again, this all take time, and there are many milestones along the way.

Feelings are fleeting.

Find yourself, your core, your beliefs, ensure you like what you find, and work to change what you don’t like. You should love who you are, fix those parts that sting - you got time.

Feelings are fleeting.

Follow your beliefs.

Be the best you will be.

DnJ

[Rita]

In reading the MWD book she talks about forgiveness being for you

For some like DNJ and Gerda that comes quickly

Wow. QUICKLY?! It sure didn't feel like that. It felt more like a death-grip battle with a very powerful saber-toothed tiger, daily, for several years. And lemme tell you, that tiger (bitterness, rage) never dies. We go at it often.

I was never able to feel forgiveness until I understood it through Christ. And the above description with the tiger-- that was AFTER that! Before that I just rode that tiger all over creation. We were a little rage machine. And I liked it.