A familiar story with questions EIGHT

[sandi2]

For the record. I believe that a woman has to feel loved, in order to make love.

I wrote more about this subject on Steve's thread today.

Even in a somewhat healthy relationship, we men use sex to temp-take.

It makes sense, but it's not an accurate measuring technique.

After some reading, I suggested she get her thyroid checked. It was fine. I now see that this was a sign and lead up to EA and BD

That may be the case sometimes. I feel there is a difference in not being happy in general and not being happy with the MR. Women are not always clear when stating their feelings. But anyway......when I came here as a WW, one of the first things I was told (b/c I was blaming my H for all my unhappiness) is that every individual is responsible for their own happiness. That was a tough pill to swallow. (BTW, this is an example of one of those things I caution you H's not to repeat to their W, thinking if it was said on the board it will be good to say to their W. Just throwing this tip in, free of charge.)

People who experience depression for the first time, often look for what's making them feel so unhappy. Sometimes it is due to chemical imbalance or whatever. Anyway, I'm really glad to hear she is doing better.

This reads like a page from my own life. As men, we get these messages from movies about spontaneity that don't often apply in real life. I remember a time when we were having a lot of sex (honeymoon phase) and I forcefully took her up against the door etc etc. And she later commented that she liked it a lot. Seduction gets complicated in a long-term MR.

Unfortunately, a lot of men get the wrong idea from movies, (and from porn). My H did, too. He compared me to the hotties in the movies, and thought something was wrong with me when I didn't respond like those actresses.

Not sure what you mean by seduction gets complicated. Women like for the man to be dominate in the bedroom. This is probably why your W liked you holding her against the door. Plus, it was probably something different.

I plan to add some kind of affectionate non-sexual touching every day. I had tried to do this several weeks ago and there were hugs. At one point she seemed put off. I asked her if the hugs bothered her. She said "a little" they made her uncomfortable.

She must really be on guard about any sign of sexual moves from you. My suggestion is that if you start to hug her, do a side to side hug, instead of front to front. That makes it a non-sexual touch when doing it side to side.

I stepped up and hugged her. Her response was receptive. She has turned into a complicated creature.

All women are complicated to men. I suggest you not look for excuses to hug her, until she gets more comfortable with your other non-sexual touches. I also suggest you not quiz her about having whether or not she has a problem with you touching her in some manner. I'd try to explain, but it's complicated. Just judge by her body language, and if she tenses or pulls away.....then don't try again for a while. I know I continue to tell you, but please don't over kill by trying to do too much too soon. You have to ease into this.

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I understand, b/c I was much the same way when I wasn't wanting physical intimacy with my H. Some of it was ignorance on my part, b/c I didn't really grasp how badly it hurt him to be rejected sexually. And, part of it was my own emotional needs were not being met by my H. I needed emotional intimacy, in order to desire physical intimacy.

This reminds me of an instance recently were I had said that not having sex for over 5 months was the longest I had gone since, well like high school. W looked seriously at me and said "Me too! Well not since HS but for a very long time." She said this like it was something that was happening to her, not because of her choice. I didn't point it out that she was the cause. But it was like she was saying that we were in the same tough spot. Anyway, I thought this was strange.

First of all, you didn't have to point out she was the cause. Trust me, the W knows whenever he complains about not getting sex.....he's blaming her. Look, you aren't seeing this from her point of view, and maybe a guy just can't understand it, IDK. You said in order to feel love, you need sex, right? That doesn't mean it applies to her. Just b/c she engages in sex with you doesn't mean she feels loved. It doesn't mean her emotional needs are met. You said women need to feel loved in order to make love (which I don't agree they have to feel love to have sex, but I think I get what you mean). I guess it does seem a little strange to you, since you can bring her to orgasm, b/c you see her getting the same pleasure and satisfaction as you receive from sex. She may receive pleasure, but it doesn't mean a woman feels loved through having sex. She needs to feel loved in some other way.

She doesn't need a man in order to have multiple orgasms. Sorry to be so harsh, and I'm not saying every woman out there agrees with me......but so far, emotional needs can't be fulfilled with a vibrator. Some women's love language is physical touch. (I think every man's LL is physical touch.) But anyway, if her LL is physical touch, then she would probably need that body contact and sex. Since she's not wanting to engage in physical intimacy, I'm guessing her LL is something else. Have you read the book of love languages?

I think she is trying to tell you that you aren't the only one who has unmet needs in this relationship. It's not near as simple for her, as you want to make it sound, b/c her LL is not sex. It's not all her fault, either. It's not her choice that she isn't getting her emotional needs met. Unfortunately, she does not communicate well, so it's difficult for you to know exactly what she wants. You can learn more about women's emotional needs by reading material written on the subject. You can be proactive by experimenting to see what works. Remember what I said about my H and how I needed him to join me at bedtime, do the pillow talk thing, give me a few words of affirmation, etc.? I didn't think it was too much to ask, but he wouldn't do it, and therefore I wasn't meeting his needs either...….so the relationship suffered. I suggest you reframe from making statements about how long it's been since having sex. She knows exactly what you are doing with that comment.

I don't want to imply that it's okay to remain in a SSM indefinitely. I do think some women decide they don't intend to have any more sex with their H, and that's that as far as she's concerned. That's wrong, and that's not what I am seeing here. I think she's a woman who hopes that someday things will change for the better. Maybe we can figure out more about it as we go.

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... I felt that my H saw having more sex as fixing our M problems. That was his answer whenever I tried to approach him about different issues. So, I became very resentful. It becomes like a cold war.

I believe these have been her thoughts. That if we do it, it will mean that things are all good.

When I decided to end my A and stay in my M, I held back on encouraging my H, b/c he would think everything was okay......and it wasn't. It was not a quick or easy fix. From what I've heard other women say, their H's judge the relationship by their sex life. If he's happy with their sex life, then he thinks she should be, too, He wonders what is her problem! I think it's a matter of her not feeling like she's been heard emotionally. I talked to my H until I was talked out, trying to explain to him what I needed. He still did not get it. I didn't know what else to do. I tried using pictures and examples......he still thought if we just had more sex our MR would be fine. So, I gave up. I really gave up. I was done. I was still physically here, but I was emotionally done. I felt as if I was dead inside. That's when I became vulnerable to some sweet talking man and had an A, b/c he made me feel special and alive. (I had had imaginary affairs for years, letting romance novels and movies feed my desires.) See, women can be fooled by fiction, too. Anyway, it was very difficult for me to find that desire and emotional energy to invest into my "dead" M.

I will proceed as discussed here. Continue with the usual DB practices and intentional, none sexual touches, try to flirt and be funny.

Fun.....not funny. Be a fun person she enjoys being with. She may not find you so "funny". Know the difference?