A familiar story with questions EIGHT

[RR17]

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I suspect that she has been WAW since BD#2.

How so? Not a trick question, just want to know how you determine it.

Because she has not been defiant and rebellious since BD#2. After BD#1 I saw a woman under a spell that I didn't recognize, as I have seen you describe. I don't currently believe there is an OM.

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I just knew I was in Limbo. Blurry messages. I have been open to the idea that we were entering R, but I really don't feel like I manufactured it.

Okay, I think I know what you mean. Maybe not so much that she's trying to slip under the door, but slowly getting to the point of reconciling. Is this about right?

Point was that the idea that we are entering R was not my own. I am open to it but it was not my initial idea. If this is the case, then yes, she would be slipping in under the door. IMO

But why did she feel she had no voice? Was it b/c she was too shy, didn't how to relate it to you, or was it b/c of how you would react to what she would say?

Yes. A little bit of all of the above. She was very shy as a young girl. IMO, she never "was heard" in her family. She is a great follower. I am a leader. That's how we satisfied each other's needs. I know that I abused this power. Once the girls got to a certain age they became her leader. D19 is a lot like her dad. Problems hit a peak when she turned 50. She gained some confidence due to accomplishments in her job. She gained her voice. After some adjustment, I have fully supported her newly found voice.

How did you take advantage?

I knew that I could convince her of anything. New houses, new cars, etc. I never abused her in a physical way. I just did what I wanted because I never experienced any pushback. I didn't force her to share how she really felt about decisions. For a decade she never complained. I think she both liked a dominant spouse and yet never felt she had much of a voice. This is the biggest thing that I think has changed as a product of all this muck. I celebrate and support the change.

Was one of her main complaints about you not making her priority in your life?

She never really said it. But, I realized it. I think I kind of covered this above. It was a dance we did and it was consensual.

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OM was in the next state, an old flame from pre-RR17. W was looking and OM contacted her on social media. An interesting thing is they had a couple of failed attempts to unite. I believe that both sabotaged these events. Something about being attracted to unavailable people.

What do you mean she "was looking"? Did she and OM ever meet up?

She has always been an attractive modest woman. She posted a pic in bikini and OM responded. No, I don't believe that they ever met up.

Are you referring to discovering where she had written down part of the Lord's Prayer?

No. This was after I had discovered that she was looking up OM after she said she was NC in MC. BD#1
She, to my knowledge, has had no contact since before BD#2. Lord's prayer was after BD#2 when I snooped in her bible study notes.

She didn't want you having access to reading her phone/computer activity whenever you decided to take a look?

She lied about the password on her work laptop. This was a year ago. She has since given it to me. She said she just resented me having all her passwords. Remember she was still planning to move out during this whole episode.

Okay, but you still aren't telling me how she's showing respect. Give me so examples.

This question frustrates me. I guess it's hard to convey. She doesn't go anywhere without telling me. She doesn't get defensive if I ask somewhat prying questions. Even when D19 is here she takes my interest into consideration. She tries to do the right thing, like listen to me, ask me before making plans. Asks me if I need anything when she is at the store. Makes sure there is money in my cigar account.
I feel like I have explained this before and I don't know how to do it any better. It is just a way. I feel important to her. If a D gets smart, she speaks up. She didn't do these things for a long time. Well before BD#1. I really don't know of a better way to illustrate it. If I think of better examples I will add them. I guess the fact that disagreements get settled and moved past faster than ever means something, no?

So she had not ended contact with OM while attending MC? She didn't go through withdrawals while attending MC? At what point did the contact stop and she went through withdrawals?

Gosh, this was so long ago. She said she did end contact during MC. I believe that is when withdrawals began. I guess the 2 times I discovered that contact hadn't stopped were kind of part of withdrawals. Eventually, she stopped me and told me that it was stopped. She said she was sorry but the first times, she just wasn't ready, but it was over. This was a painful time that I was healing and at that point, I felt she was honest. She wasn't happy but she was not a cheater and began willing her way back IMO. This was several years ago.

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during my pontification W broke down and was sobbing like I had never seen during all this crap. I asked what was the reason and W said she felt so bad about what she had put me through during A. It seemed genuine.

Did you not see that as her being remorseful? Just asking.

Does she go to confession and partake in Communion, etc.? (I'm not Catholic, so forgive me if I don't word it correctly.)

Sandi, I did and then I didn't. Never in my 24 years with her had I seen her so remorseful. She owned her action and felt very sorry for the pain that it caused. I questioned whether it was important for her to regret the A and not just the pain it caused me. Granted this was before she moved out of MBR.
No, we are protestant nondenominational Christians.

During that time I had a couple of panic attacks and I was a mess. At that time happened W was still involved it wasn't a priority of her's but now she seemed remorseful.

Sorry, I'm not following what you mean. Are you saying when she apologized she wasn't remorseful, but you think she is now?

Sorry, I must have been tired. I think I was explaining how shortly after BD#1 pre-DB, W begrudgingly acted like she was going to behave and I was in distress. I pulled a few apologies out during many R talks. When she broke down with the above-mentioned apology, I didn't pull it out. She now seems different. Again I can only give you my take. We don't have discussions about 5 years ago. I validate and limit my stories.

Well, it doesn't mean that advice was wrong. You may have not read the action correctly. Know what I mean? The key is when you start seeing their actions, words, and attitudes line up together.

I appreciate all the advice. We are all learning as we go along. lol Everyone here seems to think I see things worse than they really are, while you have said you think I see them better than they are.
All you have is what I give you and I try to do it in a none persuasive way.
I do see as you say, Actions, Words, and attitudes lining up. This is why I had taken the chances to initiate affection. (BTW, it has been several months) If it works it's a victory, when it fails it's a mistake and temp-taking.

There is a season for all things. If the W is wayward, it is not profitable for the H to act as if he is her BFF. However, if she has repented and is respecting/admiring her H, then they can begin rebuilding a respectable friendship in the MR. (I went into great detail about this subject on my WW threads.) This is my opinion. You do what works

Well, I kind of feel like this is where we are. I am reluctant to call it reconciliation but I see the respecting/admiring. And after reading and writing about the show of remorse, I wonder if my own inability has tainted that view. It was a while back and the respect/admiration has been slowly growing. The actions, words, and attitude do seem aligned for quite some time.

Okay, now you are giving few examples. Thanks.
How does she talk to you in front of the D's? Ever get sarcastic or raise her voice at you in front of them?

No, but she never really did. She was sarcastic when we were alone. But in front of the Ds, it was more of what she didn't do. I don't feel so much in competition with D19 anymore.

My thing is that I have trouble understanding why would will herself to be a good girl if she's not going to tell you anything. Maybe this is part of the communication problem, of which you spoke. Has she gone to this extreme about other things? I mean, if she wanted out of IHS and save the M, would she not suggest that much to you? as she always expected you to "guess" what she was doing or what she wanted? If so, then she really needs help in communicating...….and your job just got harder. (I thought you were like most H's who've complained the W didn't express clearly what she wanted before the bomb drop.)

BINGO!
I think she likes where the marriage is now. I don't think she is waiting for me to end IHS. I do think she is still waiting to see if the changes will last.
I asked her once if she has stopped the sex in order to drive me into someone else's arms so I would leave. She looked perplexed and said "no", but she had this look like she had never even pondered that possibility. Not like it wasn't a possibility but that she had never thought about it. Very strange.
She has gained a lot of freedom (although she chooses to spend most free time with me) A voice and more friends. W has gotten her groove back and I have supported it all the way.
I just don't know what to do. I don't want to make this the new normal.