Re: Moving past the WAW to a stronger me Pt. 5

[Davide]

Nicole,

Thanks for chiming in. Like I talked about in my previous posts, don't let anyone "should" you about the decision to date or not. If you have no interest that probably means that you aren't ready, or at the very least it isn't something you should pursue. We are all different, have slightly different situations, perspectives, and values. You simply do what is right for you and your values.

For me the important thing is to be open, to be receptive to new experiences, to broaden my world. For the last few years of my marriage I was narrowing my world to the point that the only thing that mattered in my life was the MR. It wasn't healthy for me or for the MR. It suffocated the life out of both of us. Life almost always offers such a wide variety of experiences and people into our lives if only we are open to them and willing to look outside of ourselves and our own neuroses.

I have no expectation or hope that my W will magically be attracted back, nor is that my motivation. Seeing her recently it was clear how fragile she is emotionally. For years she was progressing and growing as a person while I stagnated, but the roles seem to have reversed now as I have embraced the challenges of introspection and self-growth (out of necessity). I loved her and a part of me will always love her, but I want to be with someone healthy who can reciprocate love in a healthy way.

Best of luck with everything!

[sia]

Davide, I agree, nobody 'should' us into anything. May be as LBS we all made that mistake somewhere along the way. While I am not in a place where I will date until the D is final and may be even a bit later it is because I know what it would take for me to heal more and get to a place where I am open and healthy to a new R, this doesnt mean I think it should be the case for everyone. As long as you clearly stipulate what your sitch is and the dating partner is okay with it then each to his own IMO. I definitely agree it will help you let go of your W more easily and embrace the new life. Do you plan on being open with your W about this? Letting her know that you are beginning to date?

I will add the podcast to my list of must watch/hear, thanks.

[Davide]

Sia!!!!

So good to hear from you! I am very cognizant of the potential harm that could be created by entering into a relationship with someone only to discover that I am not ready. Discussing that with dates helps mitigate that risk and brings it out into the open but it is still there. At the same time, anytime you start a relationship with someone there is risk of getting hurt. It's tricky situation but I hope that transparency and honesty, and adhering to my values will allow me to be comfortable with my actions regardless of the result.

I don't think about dating in terms of letting go of my W. Embracing a new life - absolutely. But I am doing this for me. It really has nothing to do with her. I am not speaking to my W about this currently, and I don't think that I will. Why would I? It's really not her concern at this point. I haven't given it a ton of thought beyond that though and I would be interested in hearing a counter-argument as to why that would be a good decision.

[Davide]

Just another update:

Things intensified very quickly with one of the ladies that I started dating. We were texting and talking all the time, and ended up seeing each other 4 nights just last week. That is both good and bad as I adjust to this new phase of life. There very much is a connection between us and we share many of the same core values and visions for our lives (we both want families among other things.) However, her urge to advance things quickly also worries me a bit in that it seems to reflect a degree of insecurity or neediness on her part. She is very successful (a doctor) and independent, never married, but has been quick to latch on and ask for lots of time and attention. She has been understandably skeptical of my readiness to engage in a relationship of the sort that she wants, a fear which I intuitively get and can respect. But I think that perhaps her own insecurities as much as my own situation are driving her. She keeps pushing me away and then pulling me closer. This dating thing is complicated.

My W and I are going to sit down and talk finances, and possibly divorce on Wednesday evening. I set up the time after we had mentioned it in passing a few times recently. I want to go over what we are going to do with a) the shared phone/gym memberships (I want to separate them for the new year, even though it will cost more), b) the shared savings accounts and c) the house. The first item is simple, the latter two are complex and possibly fraught. The way I see it we can either do it through lawyers, go to mediation, or do it ourselves. I would prefer the latter option, but am open to any of the others. There will be no alimony, no child support, so this is the main monetary issue that needs to be resolved. The house is a little complicated since I am living in it and it has probably doubled in value since we bought it. I may very well want to move out at the end of the school year (in June) but for now I want to stay in it, and I don't know that I would have enough money to buy her out after we split the savings. I am resigned to the fact that if it comes down to it in court that I would have to split the savings and equity in the house 50/50, but in reality I think a 70/30 or 80/20 split in my direction is fairer given the specific circumstances of our marriage. If she is not willing to do 70/30, I think I would prefer to go to a mediator and see if we can resolve it that way.

Whether or not to bring up the divorce is another big question, obviously. We still have 4 more months until we reach the one year anniversary of the separation which would mark the time that one can legally file in this state. However, if we both agree to it, there really is no oversight, so we could start the process shortly. I am very much leaning towards suggesting this. I have given up hope of reconciliation a while back, and really believe that there are certain core values that we do do not share (commitment/loyalty being one, desire to have a family being another) which I don't see changing. I certainly still feel a certain degree of love and affection for the woman that I spent 8 years of my life with, but I don't see value in actively choosing to direct my love towards someone who is fundamentally incompatible with me (not to mention, someone who doesn't actively choose to love me!) As emotionally needy as I was in the relationship, I can also now see how poor her emotional boundaries were as well. She constantly used to tell me how my bad moods would affect her, and how she couldn't be happy if I was unhappy. I want someone in my life who takes responsibility for their own happiness.

I don't want to rush into that conversation, but I am feeling ready to begin tackling it. I'd definitely be interested in hearing opinions (or receiving 2x4s) here.

[ovrrnbw]

Dang Davide,

I'm sorry to read that you are considering bringing up divorce. I know you are living in the moment, aware of reality, and it's kinda sad. But I think you have accepted it, the worst is behind you, and for that I am happy for you. I am going to advise you not to discuss splitting things up yet, because I think you cross this bridge when you get there. Your wife isn't taking advantage of you financially, right? If not, I don't see the need to rush things if you are truly still hoping to save the marriage.

I'm glad to hear you are having some fun in the dating world, that probably feels great. Given your sitch, it seems to me that you may be overanalyzing things a bit.

She constantly used to tell me how my bad moods would affect her, and how she couldn't be happy if I was unhappy. I want someone in my life who takes responsibility for their own happiness.

I don't see this as an entirely bad thing. I think someone who says this is trying to show you that they care. Your temporary moods should not affect your partner's overall happiness. But the day in, day out moods are going to affect a relationship no matter what "emotional boundaries" a person has.

We'll see what some of the other folks say, I'm happy to read you are still progressing emotionally and mentally.

[FlySolo]

Hi Davide,

If you feel you are ready for the D conversation, then I think you should do it. I think if you are dating and it feels right (emphasis on the "it feels right") then a part of you already feels like you are no longer married.

However, and this is how I feel about dating too, if in anyway, it doesn't feel right, but you are doing it because you think you 'should' be dating, or because it is a two fingers up to your W (which I don't think it is in your case), then I would do as Ovrr says and just let it happen if and when it happens.

Good luck. I think no matter how emotionally prepared we are for the divorce talk or any R talk, it and they still sting like a MF.

[neffer]

Hi D. Just take your time and use it wisely as Cadet says. Don’t rush to get into somewhere you even don’t know if you want. Get some legal advice about dividing your things. Just to know where to stand.

Keep GAL, keep DB.

Do what makes you happy. Piece of cake!

[Davide]

Ovr,

First off, thanks for the support! I appreciate your advice and questioning.

I'm glad to hear you are having some fun in the dating world, that probably feels great. Given your sitch, it seems to me that you may be overanalyzing things a bit.

I would normally agree that i have a tendency to overanalyze things, but in this case it seems warranted. Despite a great connection this woman has already tried to stop seeing me twice because of her concerns. She went so far as to tell her friends and mother that she was stopping seeing me - but then after we talk she wants to spend the night together. At least in this occasion it is not all in my head!

I am going to advise you not to discuss splitting things up yet, because I think you cross this bridge when you get there. Your wife isn't taking advantage of you financially, right? If not, I don't see the need to rush things if you are truly still hoping to save the marriage.

There is no rush. She hasn't touched any of our joint accounts since we split them in the beginning of June. However, I don't see myself as trying to save the marriage at this point. I understand that this site and forum is dedicated to "divorce busting" but the skills I have learned here have served me beyond that. My marriage is dead and buried at this point. It still hurts a bit to say that, but I don't think that waiting any more time is going to change that, and I am okay with it now.

I don't see this as an entirely bad thing. I think someone who says this is trying to show you that they care. Your temporary moods should not affect your partner's overall happiness. But the day in, day out moods are going to affect a relationship no matter what "emotional boundaries" a person has.

I think that both of us, and I indict myself just as much if not more than her, DID let temporary moods of each other affect our overall happiness. I think we both had poor emotional boundaries. I think that was one of the major issues in our marriage. Honestly, it is a mistake that I would like to learn from and not repeat - both on my own end, and in terms of trying to find a partner with healthy boundaries of their own.

FlySolo,

Good to hear from you as well. I am definitely always questioning my motivations and trying to act from a place of strength and abundance rather than a place of need. I want to date because I feel like my life is good and I have a lot of love to offer. It's definitely not a reaction to my wife (she has been with OM since at least August). Nor is anyone putting any pressure on me to date - if anything, the advice I have received here and elsewhere has been to be cautious.

Good luck. I think no matter how emotionally prepared we are for the divorce talk or any R talk, it and they still sting like a MF.

Without a doubt. I am completely prepared for an emotional reaction when having this conversation. It will certainly raise certain ghosts, but I don't know that that is a bad thing. I don't want to hide from them, and I feel strong enough at this point to confront them. Plus, I know that I have a support network with family, friends, and of course all of you here.

Neffer,

Siempre cuento con tu apoyo!

Hi D. Just take your time and use it wisely as Cadet says. Don’t rush to get into somewhere you even don’t know if you want. Get some legal advice about dividing your things. Just to know where to stand.

I question whether I am rushing. However, I don't see how more time will make me feel any differently. I feel quite certain that this chapter of my life is closed and that I need to turn the page. I certainly won't rush into any legally binding decisions, I'm quite pragmatic and level-headed in my decision making. I think that most likely we can reach an amicable division of assets without needing to involve outside parties, but I will certainly make sure that my butt is covered in all cases.

[Maika]

Hey Davide,

Things seem to be progressing well for you, especially at the mental level. Emotional healing is always playing catch up but I think that's just how it works. Heart needs more TLC than the mind.

It looks like you're at a place where you're making decisions not out of emotion, but serious thought and contemplation. Nobody can tell anyone if they should D or start dating. There are just guidelines and everyone's different.

Do your thing and continue on your path of healing and living life to the fullest.

[Davide]

Thanks Maika,

I value your input as much if not more than anyone on here given how helpful you have been in my sitch. Believe it or not, I sometimes ask myself what would Maika do in a particular situation because I know how deliberate and contemplative you are in your decision-making. Obviously, the decisions I make might be different based on my own value system, but I think the process is very similar to yours.

It's interesting what you say about the difference between emotional and mental health. In general I think that the practices I have put in place have very much helped my mental health, my resilience, and my ability to deal with and compartmentalize negative emotions. For sure, there are still negative emotions present at times and I think that will continue for a while. At this point, they don't scare me, I don't let them build up in my mind, nor do I run from them. I own them and put them in their proper place, not letting them rule my mind.