That is a tough one Hurt. I’m no expert and I’m not doing so great with my sitch either...detaching is my main goal. However, I don’t think detaching means being cold or grumpy. It is difficult with her living there, I imagine. My H moved out before I knew what was happening so I have not had the experience of an IHS. Reading what you wrote, the phrase “you are still too focused on her” kind of rang in my head. I think if you were truly detached, you would just be you...the person you want to be regardless of what she is doing or not doing. So you don’t chase her or try to get her to have R talks... you just do your own thing. If you find yourself in a conversation with her, just treat her like you would anyone you care about but aren’t wrapped up in like a good, but not too good, friend. That’s my understanding anyway. When I see my H, I am fairly pleasant. If he talks, I listen. If he asks me a question, I respond accordingly. I don’t pry into what he is doing unless if pertains directly to our kids. It is still hard. My H has left me with many, many unanswered questions and has shaken my confidence so recovery from that is not easy. I am persevering though. I still feel pretty sad when I see him and right away after her leaves but I don’t stay sad for as long as before. I am hoping, in time, the sadness will be replaced with indifference (?)... not sure that is the right word because it implies a lack of caring. I don’t want to not care about him. I want to care about him but just not be emotionally rattled by him. It is going to take awhile. I am just at the start of this journey and it is not one I wanted to take, but I am on it nevertheless. And so are you. You will get there too Hurt. (((Hugs))
So apparently WW is having some difficulties coping, or she is just temp checking: She wrote me that "you got mail", and surely I did. I am going to translate it, and let you guys take a swing at what this is.
From WW:
"So, now it became my turn to write a letter to you... I want to apologize. Sorry for everything.. It is really so wrong of me to do this.. I know, that you do not hate me, but I have, without a doubt, hate for myself. Sometimes when I am alone, I have panic attacks, and I have trouble breathing. I am feeling like I am being completely destroyed inside, and it is all my fault. I am so impressed by you, and I have so much respect for you. You are the biggest man, with the biggest heart, and that showed in how you have fought for your family and me. I cannot deny that I have feelings for another man, however I cannot deny either, that I am very impressed by the man you have become. As I have said before, everything would had been so much easier, if you had just been the old "hurt...". Now here we are, the situation is like this, we are selling our home. Something in me really wants to, and is ready to sign the papers, but something else in me is so afraid for the unknown, and what the future will bring and the fact that maybe this is the end for me and you.
Because you and I hasn't been all bad, no. Goddamn there has been so much good. Our humor, our confidence, our unity. It has made me strong, but at the same time made us both weak. So what now? Are we going our separate ways, in order for us to get to know ourselves? I think so? I am so afraid to stay with you, and then not be able to be in it, and then do this to you all over again. I am so afraid, to loose what we have both become these last months. Will it ever be us again? Right now I wouldn't be able to do it, without wondering, why didn't I try to be by myself and stand on my own legs?
Maybe we will both find another soon... and become happy.. maybe not... Everything inside of me is a complete mess.. And I want to apologize again.. Im a lousy human being, and you are without a doubt the best... I would love to be able to talk to you, laugh with you, and that we could be best friends, but I understand that you can't...
I want you in my life, who else am I going to watch Game of Thrones with ? - There is only you, who have been by my side through youth, only you who I have had children with. All of this, will stay with us forever.. So.... Sorry, sorry, sorry that I am not able to give myself to continue our relationship. I understand that you are mad at me.. I really want to have a good time with you on your birthday, but I accept that you can't deal with it.
Sorry that I completely ruined everything"..
I did respond, even though I shouldn't have (failed at temp check like the tool I am).
I wrote:
"I am not mad with you, if that is what you feel, then you are misinterpreting my signals."I simply have let go, because you made a choice, a choice that clearly stated, that you do not believe we were something special, that could be a fairytale (you don't need to go out and stand on your own legs, to figure that out). Feelings aren't something we as human beings have control over, but feelings come and go. However, we as human beings are responsible for how we act on those feelings. You took our mutual future, and the mutual future of our children and you crushed it, because you acted on a feeling to go on dates, to go on adventures without having to deal with children, and because you felt alive doing these things (who wouldn't, its tough raising little human beings). All of these things, you could have had, because our children are reaching an age soon, where it is possible to go out, and live little again. Harvest the fruits of the hard labor so to speak. So fly little bird, fly out, and live the life, you didn't have the patience to wait for at home."
Allright, tell me how bad I screwed up...
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
It’s ok Hurt. You survived a gross temp check. Many more to come. W is still ww so any statement falls into “believe nothing that they say”... one snap of OM and she’ll be gone unicorn hunting...
Stay the way you are walking. Keep DB and simply jump those mines. You are better that that. You are amoafwl. Well she is the fool, so stay away from her. Act cool and calm and evade any R talk, family times together, everything. She is not in that boat and you know that.
Consistency and attitude. You are DB well Hurt. Don’t be afraid of detaching. You are standing for yourself. You are the lighthouse for your kids. You are getting your respect back.
Keep walking that road man. Don’t hesitate. Take your time to answer like you are actually doing. Stay strong man. You are getting there.
so that was a CAT 5 hurricane type letter. i see some hope for you in what she wrote if the OM sitch is not a deal breaker for you. thing is words are not actions. look you were hit hard with serious waywardness from her so again give yourself grace on "screwing up". polite empathy with what she said would have been enough. so long as OM deal is going on, you are going full speed opposite direction, moving on. you pursued, showed some of your cards, etc, but hey you have been basically abused by her and so when she served up what she did to you, you swung for the fences. for me with the devastation that she has already wrought, what you replied with ain't the biggest of deals in the grand scheme of things. next time "words" come to you, empathize "I'm sorry you feel that way, this must have been very difficult for you, etc", but keep your feelings to yourself and stay away from what you think she's feeling or how what's she's done has impacted you. "maybe" way down the road her ACTIONS change but for now let her deal with her own demons. you have more control/power in this sitch than you realize if you can find the fortitude within yourself to leave her be and walk your own path.
"I can't control my own actions. And I hate what those actions are. I have feelings for another man due to no choice of my own."
In other words, she wants you to forgive her because after all it isn't her fault.
It makes me want to vomit. It is disgusting. It is her trying to convince you that she owns this while at the same time telling you and her both that she doesn't because this is bigger than her.
Everything she stated is IN HER CONTROL! And to deny that is to lie to herself. It physically sickens me to read these kinds of things.
Oh, and the transparency in the "I want use to be besties!" is so sickening. "Who else am I going to watch GOT with?" PUKE.
Now your response. Or I should say reaction. In the future you'd do better to hold off on responding and get feedback here and other places. Your response wasn't bad, but it could have been better. It was way too long for starters. I would have opted for something like:
"I am not mad at you. I actually pity you. You are giving up a family for a feeling. Family is real, feelings are fleeting. Good luck in your new life, I truly hope you find happiness even if it isn't with us."
This keeps the spirit of your response (I really like the way you made it about you AND the kids, not just you and her like she tried to do). Succinctness is your friend. Remember, one of the greatest tools in DBing is mystery. Rather than a long response that tells her exactly how you feel, let her wonder "hmmm, I wonder what that letter made him think and feel?"
I said you reacted rather than responded because that is what we tend to do off the cuff. And you're right, this was more temp checking than anything. "We are selling the house. I am leaving for another man. I am destroying our family. I am sorry, but will you still be part of my life?"
So glad I didn't just eat breakfast.............
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hurt... I don’t think your W wrote this with any “plan”. Clearly, she is seeing you change. She is struggling with this. I think she was sincere in what she wrote and I think you handled it reasonably well. I think if my H wrote me a letter, it would be similar to this. He has told himself for so long that happiness lies outside of our R, he feels compelled to find out. Your W wrote that she is very afraid that if she stayed, she would only do this to you again. She needs to have the experience of standing on her own two feet so I think you should just let her do that and wish her well... as hard as that is. I think she was honest in saying she is a “complete mess” inside. I’m sure she is. She knows what she is leaving...she still feels she has to do it. She needs time and space to get herself sorted out. If she does not get that space, her confusion will just continue to increase and she will blame you for it. Keep focusing on you and making those changes. You will be better for it. And let her go...with love. (((HUGS)))
Thank you guys, so much, for your very solid and thoughtful advice on what went down today. Luckily, I didn't take the bait, and even though, I in the future will back off and not reply until having asked here, then looking at back at my response, I think it was okay after all. When i skim over the letter, it really is just a big "Oh I did something bad, forgive me, so I can stay in this without feeling so guilty" kinda letter. There is no real substance to it, and the way she praises me, it just comes off as such fake gestures when I look back at how she communicated to me verbally and with her actions over the course of the past 3 - 4 months. I am glad to say with full honesty, that this letter did nothing to my feelings, and that is assuring to me.
When I came home today, I had fun with the kids, and read them a story. She tried to engage in talk, and twice said, that she really would love to spend my birthday with me, but if I didn't want to, then she would go visit a girlfriend, that had asked if she would come by. I told her that it would be great if she visited her friend. She then proceeded to say, that I should think about it and not answer right now... well i just fukcn answered you woman........... that put me on a little tilt, but im done showing her.
I was making the kids lunchboxes for tomorrow when she asked if I wanted a cup of coffee. I said I would make one when I was done. She then made one, and stood behind me and said "Hurt, can I tell you something?" I thought, what now.... she then said "you have really gotten broad shoulders from all your training, and not in a bad way at all, its really nice." I just said, "thanks". She then wanted to show me that she had hung up a christmas scratch calendar for me that she bought today... Welcome to wacky wacky town....... I had none of it, answered her politely but tried to stay with the kids in rooms separate from her.
Now Im about to tug in d4, WW has left the house to help her relatives with something, and I am gonna be in the MBR tonight watching a movie, eating a bowl of nachos (cheat nights are awesome! :D), and early sleep. She agreed to take the kids tomorrow morning (well I asked if she would be home tomorrow morning) so I could get an early workout done before work - I was amazed, since its my week with the kids, but she hasn't been at OMs place since friday <-- Doesn't matter, I would prefer her there at the moment to be honest.
So yea, what is going on... Temp check monday (laughing while i type this).
Thank you all for being the most awesome support group in the whole world by the way. I am seeing the light, and I love it. I feel like, WW would be nice to have around (if she cleaned up and redeemed herself), but it would only be nice, it wouldn't be necessary for me to have a life that I want. Maybe that is what is stirring things up, I don't know.
Last edited by Hurt213; 12/03/1805:27 PM.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
I do not want to give you false hope, but when my WW started to turnaround these were the kinds of things she started to do and engage it. It was as if, while she was still wayward, she had a second personality that also wanted to stay. If you see my threads you'll see I said frequently "its as if she is having a war inside of her". I think at this point the WW is looking for 1 of 2 things.
1) They are looking for reassurance that what they are doing is okay. My WW was very much after this. It is important her to NOT let her off the hook. If she broaches the subject, and you shouldn't initiate it, you can continue to hold her accountable. When she tries to play it off as being better for the kids, remind her that ideally kids would come from an intact home with parents that are actively working on their MR. When she tries to say you are better off remind her that while you will be fine, you want what is best for the kids (again, intact home with parents actively working on MR). Do not ever give her the impression you condone what she is doing, while at the same time letting her know that you are going to be fine NO MATTER WHAT.
2) Looking for reasons to stay. They have to face a lot with their decisions. Disappointing kids, their spouse, their family, their spouse's family, friends, church members (for that that are religious) etc. They've seen changes in the LBS but they aren't sure of them yet. They are having pangs of staying, but they want to be sure that if they reverse course it is the correct course of action. So make sure she knows that the path to coming back is clear IF she is willing to make the changes she needs to make: MC, stopping all contact with OM (including a decease and desist letter), etc. Do not just let her come back (you know this), but make her aware that you will be behind her decision 100% if she decides to do the work.
Hurt, WWs are strange creatures and are really flaky. Mine flip-flopped between staying and going for weeks. Which is why you need to make sure to keep DBing. I often tell LBSs that this is a very dangerous point. To stop DBing now will likely erase any progress you've made. Trust the process.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Guys, remember there is a very dark power besides that behaviors. It’s related with the addition to the AP. And we all know it’s really powerful. That’s why wws must hit rock bottom before any kind of recovery. Hey see who’s writing this...
That’s why “believe nothing that they say...” is still in place. These are only fireworks and do not confuse them with shooting stars. No time for wishes. Time to keep DB.
