Finding the Balance and then Tipping the Scale

[sandi2]

Originally Posted by Sandi2

So, you already know what she's gong to say, and you are going to wait for seven months to tell her no? Help me understand this. I know you love her, but you have to respect yourself more than this.

It may be early and maybe I am impatient or maybe I am confused at the direction of this.

Perhaps we are not understanding each other. When I wrote the above quote, I was trying to figure out where you were going. Were you going to work on self improvements and at the end of 7 months, move out. You seem to think her answer was not going to be in favor of the MR at the end of the 7 month time frame. If you currently know you will move out at the end of 7 months, then why would you currently subject yourself to the disrespect she brings to the MR, while planning to leave at the end of 7 months? I was just trying to get a clearer picture of your intent and how you are thinking about all of this.

Help me put all the pieces together, I thought IHS rarely works and LBS dealing with WW need to do more than being nice, giving space and showing we've changed, things that can be shown during R, but for right now we need to be tough. Isn't making the stand what we want to do for several reasons? Isn't separation with her moving out the end goal since it has higher chance for R?

Well, that's sounds a little jumbled up. Refresh my memory. Has your relationship status been labeled as IHS? If not, then just don't agree to IHS. That's doesn't mean you can't have her leave the MBR b/c she is cheater.....it means you have not designated this relationship status to be IHS. BTW, the WW sometime takes it upon herself to designate the MR is currently IHS, b/c that would be lovely for her. I think that is the H's cue to tell her to move out if she wants a separation. IHS is serving her cake with lots & lots of icing.

Now, let's talk more about the WW having a PA and refusing to end things with OM. We usually think of a PA as being the ultimate show of betrayal and disrespect. I have never seen the IHS label succeed in bringing the W out of her wayward behavior or cause her to end a PA. However, I have seen a few successes with couples who never officially put the label of IHSon the MR. It's rare, but not more rare than IHS success. I want to make it clear that telling your WW to leave the MBR and establishing or labeling the relationship as being an in-house separation are two entirely different things. (I discussed this in my first thread on the WW mindset.) I believe if it's going to be called or seen as M separation, then the couple needs to physically separate. I believe PS is more effective all the way around, if you are going to classified the MR as separated. Otherwise, I promise you that the WW will take full advantage of having the classification of IHS. Just don't put that label on it. It's like giving her a hall pass.

IHS is a compromise. In my opinion, IHS places the H in an extremely difficult situation to establish/enforce the more major boundaries......b/c in some aspects, he is compromising by living under the same roof with his adulterous W. However, it's not that easy for some to financially afford another place, pay child support, etc. I realize all of that. I'm only telling you what I've observed. IDK the times I have read a LBH words on how IHS was "soul crushing". He has lost his self respect, self esteem, the lines are blurred and he stays perplexed over every little thing....not knowing exactly how he should handle some approaching situation. He wears himself out by trying to be what he thinks she wants......and it's not working. He is constantly focused on her, b/c she's right there under his roof, rubbing it in his face every day.

Is physical separation the "end goal" b/c it has higher chance of reconciliation? I would not say it is the end goal. Yes, I've seen it more successful, but there are no guarantees. In my opinion, it protects the H's self respect as well as demonstrate it. The end goal is reconciliation, if you want a successful MR. You may discover after living apart that you don't want reconciliation. It seems to help in clarifying the lines a lot better. You don't feel you are constantly compromising on a daily basis. It gives the WW a clearer picture of life without you (more about that later), and it kind of pushes her & OM closer......which causes her to place more demands on him, or she starts seeing him differently, and it often leads to the end of their A. I could go on & on about this, and may still not answer what you don't understand. I always tell the LBH to do nothing before he knows where he stands legally. Hey, the ideal situation (for separation) is to have her leave the home, but it's not that easy anymore. From what I've read, she's just as likely not to leave, and the law seems to be on her side. You have to make those considerations. Do what works for you.

I know I could word it better than making it sound like an ultimatum but what am I missing, the true purpose of it?? Because right now it only comes across as an ultimatum?

If you are asking me, I will tell you that it is a sense, intuition, the feel of your posts......whatever you want to call it. Some of us have been around a long time, and we recognize the sounds in newbies. We can tell when a new LBH is wanting to do something/anything to make the OM go away, bring the MR back together. He wants to get his W back! He wants to straighten out the mess. I think it is part of how men think, just like he feels he should pursue...….b/c that's his nature. Newbies can't even see how they are pursuing, but we can. We can also tell when the newbie is grabbing at any straw to get the immediate results he desires. We can see how he puts expectations on outcomes. Call it experience, or whatever. One problem I see in LBH's is how they are rushing through all these things we tell them to read/study. They aren't really comprehending or retaining some important parts, b/c they are in a big hurry to find get through it (maybe skim over the content) and find the bottom answer. You may feel frustrated by some our posts, but I hope you'll stick with us, b/c we want to help.

I can't give you a guaranteed formula. I am familiar with the mindset of the WW, and I can tell you some things that will not work. All of us here come from a place of some experience and have learned from others. It doesn't mean everyone's M was saved, but we learned and are here sharing what we can.

I think that because I've been a nice guy for so long that my self-respect gauge has been compromised and I feel like I need to work on that, fix it, get it back, earn it, and show her I won't put up with her disrespect to me.

Very well worded. I get it. I've also learned that it is initially difficult for a nice-guy to balance his responses/actions. He comes here and reads about boundaries and standing up for himself, and he is ready to charge in there and give his WW the shock of her life. In other words, he feels fired up to take back his b@lls......at long last. But, this is where so many nice-guy H's open their mouth and insert their foot, b/c they are in a big hurry to show the WW a thing or two. That's why I told you about the H's who gave the boundary of not staying in an open M, and then they backed up and ate their words, which resulted in the WW feeling even more contempt. If you haven't ever enforced a small boundary, what makes you think you can enforce major one? I'm just saying that maybe you need to practice on a couple of less extreme before jumping into the deep end of the pool. I also a lot of nice-guy H's using way too many words when they voice a boundary. They talk it to death. Make sense? I'm not going back on what I said about separation, or anything else. I've just seen too many newbies jump off into something they didn't fully grasp. So, just take a little time to get this information down right. That's all I'm saying.

I can do the last last resort and cut her off any interaction but isn't that going dark and better if alrdy separated?

The way I understand "going dark" is as if you've dropped off the planet. Which, I think is impossible when you are living under the same roof, and when you co-parent a child. Some people see going dark differently. You don't have to go completely dark in order to apply the LRT. How do you see implementing the last resort?

is it not a good idea to initiate the dialogue at this point in time?

Back to boundaries, this was said previously, regarding boundaries. My answer is that you don't have a "dialogue" about your boundary. If you want to state what the boundary is, that's fine. But you don't have a conversation about it. I promise you it will turn into a relationship talk, and that is not the purpose of stating a boundary. Beside, she's not going to pay any attention to more talk. She's going to watch your action. It's not completely necessary to voice your boundary, but it is necessary for you to act upon it if it is disrespected. Does that make sense? In other words, I'm pretty sure she has a good idea of your boundaries already. She just doesn't honor them. Voicing the boundary to her is mainly to alert her that she's walking on very thin ice. She can't pretend she "didn't know". Personally, I think most every WW is going to test the H's boundaries. It's part of her wayward nature......b/c she doesn't think he has the b@lls to do anything if she chose to ignore it. Therefore, you need to be prepared for the worst and know your plan of action if she tries to compromise that boundary. And by the way, she doesn't have to agree with your boundary. But if she compromises or ignores it, then you act. No warnings, no negotiations.

I feel like if I push this, she will not honor the boundary, why would she?

Look, it will go one of two ways. She will honor the boundary and you don't have to follow up on doing some action to enforce it. Or, she won't honor it and you'll act to protect yourself by enforcing the boundary. You enforce it by backing up your word. Following through with whatever consequences of breaking the boundary. Remember the circle is around you. You are protecting Adam's respect.

I don't know how to explain this in the most accurate way, maybe someone else will offer to word it better. IMHO, your actions should result in consequences for the obvious disrespect for you (whatever that personal boundary may be). Everyone should have personal boundaries about how they will be treated by others. The consequences of dishonoring your personal boundary should fit the crime, so to speak. In other words, you save the most major action (on your part) for the most grievous show of disrespect (on their part). In a MR, for example, a physical affair would call for a pretty major move on the part of the H. Although it's not really about punishing her. It's not your job to execute punishment. It is your job to protect your respect and feelings as a man. She may not see your action as any type of personal loss or punishment as a result of your action taken. Enforcing boundaries ties to exercising tough love and taking your b@lls back as a man. I hope this makes sense, and doesn't sound as if I'm talking out of both sides of the mouth. If you are confused, keep asking questions.

I feel like if I push this, she will not honor the boundary, why would she? If she doesn't honor it, then we physically separate and work on it from there.

I'm not trying to knit-pick your words, but you don't "push" it. Setting a boundary is not giving a threat. You don't continue to repeat/voice a particular boundary as if it's a warning, and show no action when it's ignored or compromised. You don't follow her around the house making grand pronouncements about numerous boundaries. It's not like something you try to hold over her head. You've set a personal boundary, and there are no negotiations. She has a choice to honor it or not. If not, then you follow through by an action that protects you from the disrespectful behavior from her.

As for physically separating and "work on it from there"...…….if this is the route you take for enforcing a boundary, then do NOT leave her with the assumption that the separation is to work on the M. She has to believe you are completely done with her and her disrespect. That is very important. If you offer to work on the M at the time she learns you are physically separating then it sounds as if you are bargaining. No bargaining, no promises, no compromising your values and integrity. Trust me when I say that if & when she decides she seriously wants to make it work with you.....she will seek you out and want to know what she has to do to save the M (more about that part, later). That's probably not going to happen until she goes through some things attached to her waywardness. Although you hope the MR will eventually be reconciled, you cannot tell her that's why you are separating. Your main purpose is to protect your own feelings and not compromise with her lack of respect for you. This is taking a stand. Protecting your boundaries should be the motivation behind your action. It's not a gimmick to get her to end the A, or stop contacting OM and work with you on the MR.


I want to remind you not to try and repeat to her the words you read here. She'll know it's not your own words, and it will sound a little preachy or fake.