MLC, WAS, or both

[burned]

She is so lost, and being very kind and removed so this will proceed with as little pain as possible for me (and for her?).

Exactly. And if our Ws have done any homework about how to do a breakup, this is what's recommended. "It's not you, it's me," stick to your guns, don't explain too much because that gets you roped into an argument, etc. etc. It's impossible to read self-help books that address relationships without getting a bit emotional about the other side of the coin. I particularly hate the parts that say, "No one should stay in an unhealthy R." Define unhealthy! -- OK, I guess what I tell myself, to calm myself down, is that the books are right. Suppose the R was unhealthy for both of us. It is ending. There will be a new one, either with W or with someone else. But ideally it will be much better than the one before. I think everything we're doing here with DB and all that, is to create the possibility for a new R with W. We just have to prepare ourselves for it, and hope that someday we will get a chance and be willing to take the chance.

[Yail]

I guess what is hardest for me, and likely hardest for a lot of us, is that I feel like I won't have closure with W. She's floundering, and you can't have a real sit-down-let's-really-work-on-this approach with them. From my perspective I feel like I know what's going on, but that doesn't change anything. There was never a chance to really do the work to try, because it happened so fast and she was too closed off to ask for help.

In my case my W never said, "it's not you, it's me". She kind of did blame me. I'm just seeing now that it is her rationalization.

I wonder too about the concept of an unhealthy R. In our case, I wouldn't call it "unhealthy" I don't think. Maybe I'm wrong on that, I'll have to do some more reading and thinking. But it was more like we were both settling into a mundane life, not reaching for our individual potential. Personally, I feel like if both people are happy and content that's okay. I don't believe all of us are unique flowers that need to shine. I think a long content life is a wonderful goal. But W was at a point in her life where she went, "is this it?" and it was no longer okay with her. But she couldn't express that, so I didn't realize her goals were changing.

[burned]

she couldn't express that, so I didn't realize her goals were changing.

This, right here, seems to be a problem with a lot of these WWs, at least ours. On the other hand, it's also hard to judge in hindsight just how much of the sitch depends on the A. Every M has problems, every couple has trouble addressing the problems at times. But not every M ends abruptly when one spouse sleeps with someone else. So then their eyes are opened to the possibilities, and the LBS starts to pale in comparison. Then out come the reasons they use to explain to themselves why what happened happened.

[Yail]

So then their eyes are opened to the possibilities, and the LBS starts to pale in comparison. Then out come the reasons they use to explain to themselves why what happened happened.

I'm not sure how much I connect with this statement. Not saying it isn't true, but it puts AP in a good light. I truly don't believe that. I see OW as a pathetic symptom (and a truly pathetic woman. Seriously, I've hung out with her. She's so insecure that everything is about her. These kind of people screaming for attention exhaust me). Sure, there's a bit of affair fog, or whatever you'd like to call it. But OW is a distraction from W's own pain.

I think our partners have affairs often because they just need to get out of their own skin. Being with someone else allows them to be someone else, a different character, and allows them to breathe while they avoid their own pain.

W's goals were changing before she met OW, which just further validates me in that this is not about OW or me. It is about W. Our Ws need help, but don't know how to help themselves. We can only hope they find their way.

[burned]

I'm not sure how much I connect with this statement. Not saying it isn't true, but it puts AP in a good light. I truly don't believe that. I see OW as a pathetic symptom (and a truly pathetic woman. Seriously, I've hung out with her. She's so insecure that everything is about her. These kind of people screaming for attention exhaust me).

I don't mean to put AP in a good light. Just that it's impossible to be in a "new" relationship without having experiences that make you think about the old one in all kinds of different ways. And don't underestimate the human brain's fascination with anything "new" when it is paired with positive emotions. That's something that happens in the dopaminergic system. And dopamine is the neurotransmitter that modulates addiction. No wonder people around here say affairs are like an addiction. Biologically, that's exactly right.

I think our partners have affairs often because they just need to get out of their own skin. Being with someone else allows them to be someone else, a different character, and allows them to breathe while they avoid their own pain.

Bingo! And what's more, you could argue that the kinds of people who end up in affairs are the kinds of people who did that exact same thing in their primary relationships. They are chasing after how they FEEL when they are with someone. And they originally felt that way with us, until we changed. So off they go to the next one. My wise mother keeps reminding me that if W keeps following that same pattern, she'll never be happy, whereas I've been forced to face those kinds of problems and address them. As have you. Lucky us, I guess.

[Yail]

Hi all. I do have a question I've been contemplating the past day or so.

W is coming back again this weekend to attend her friend's funeral and mom's bday. She respectfully requested if she might stay at the house that night. I said that is fine, and it is. She will also be picking up additional items from the house.

I'm thinking ahead to the holiday season, and don't know W's plans. Her family lives near me. As I've been thinking about it, I don't really wish to see her at this point, as it sends me spinning and is emotionally exhausting. I don't want to spend the holidays that way. Would it be okay for me to say to her, "I don't know what your plans were for the holiday season, but for me I think it would be best if you didn't stay at the house for any visits you might have planned. Do you think you can get any items you need from the house on this trip? Does that work for you?"

In earlier weeks I would have been concerned about saying this because the house is in W's name and I'm not paying for the mortgage. I felt it was within her rights to stay at the house. This feeling is changing though, because she has an apartment to herself, and this is now my home until it is sold. However, I'm not trying to push any buttons, just do what's right for me. I realize it shows that I'm still attached, but she has just asked for a D that she knows I don't want. That shouldn't surprise her, and I'm just trying to move forward in a way that is positive for me.

It would also be a new behavior from me, as I historically have been always very happy to see her.

What are your thoughts? I'd like to say my above bit first, before she has the opportunity to ask if she can stay. Shows her I've made some decisions for my own well being.

[burned]

She respectfully requested if she might stay at the house that night. I said that is fine, and it is. She will also be picking up additional items from the house.

I'll give you a pass on this one, because it's soon and you don't want to be rude, and she does need to get stuff from the house, and you don't want to come across as indecisive.

Would it be okay for me to say to her, "I don't know what your plans were for the holiday season, but for me I think it would be best if you didn't stay at the house for any visits you might have planned. Do you think you can get any items you need from the house on this trip? Does that work for you?"

Sticky subject due to the legal aspects of it. Time to lawyer up and get the kind of advice that nobody here can provide. Seriously, spend the $150 for the initial consult (some of them do it for free) so you know what kinds of issues you'll need to consider. For example, defining "marital assets" is sticky depending on which state you live in. It's not at all clear from what you've told us that the house could be considered a marital asset. Maybe if she purchased it while you were married with the intent of both of you living in it. But what I mean is, those are the kinds of annoying details you'll want to know about. Then, armed with the facts, you can prepare yourself for a difficult conversation that will probably involve you having to say something like, "I know the house is in your name, but marital assets are shared, and I would like some privacy." You could tell her she needs to get ALL of her stuff out. You could offer to pay half the mortgage as "rent" or something.

I think in the end it will have to be more of a discussion than a grand statement, meaning it will require somewhat more intestinal fortitude. Consider it an opportunity to do a 180. Were you passive and accommodating during the M? Can you demonstrate to yourself what you're capable of by having this kind of discussion? Just spitballing. Proper planning prevents poor performance.

[Yail]

From what I understand, the house is not a marital asset in that it was purchased before we were married in her name. The only thing that could tip my favor is that we had a domestic partnership, so it would be clear to any courts that we were in a committed long-term relationship. I don't believe this has any legal ramification, but will be calling a L to check. We did not have a Civil Union.

W is not (currently) being antagonizing at all and I think she would ultimately respect my request. It's just for the month of December I'd prefer the space due to the emotions surrounding the holidays. I would not word it in this way - I'd simply explain that I'd prefer some space during the holiday season. She has indicated she will file for D in January, at which point I understand contact between us will resume.

With a long history, there's obviously a lot of "our" stuff that is not clearly hers or mine. We've agreed January will be when we can determine who is wanting or needing what. She has taken most if not all of "her" stuff already.

I don't have a major issue with standing my ground with W. Historically I've been accomodating in our R because I wouldn't have an opinion on something. However, if it is important to me I am able to be calm and clear with my needs. The 180 for me would be if I brought it up first, instead of waiting for her to bring up the conversation. That would be a major 180, come to think of it. I have never brought up a tricky conversation without being prompted.

I can certainly offer to pay mortgage or rent, though I'm trying to avoid this as long as possible. As long as she's paying it I can save save save money for whatever is next. I don't have a huge amount of cash available, though I'm not at a point of being too nervous. I'm just trying to be prepared.

[burned]

From what I understand, the house is not a marital asset in that it was purchased before we were married in her name. The only thing that could tip my favor is that we had a domestic partnership, so it would be clear to any courts that we were in a committed long-term relationship. I don't believe this has any legal ramification, but will be calling a L to check. We did not have a Civil Union.

And that's the reason to talk to the L. State laws vary. (Not sure why but I have a feeling that you live in the same state as I do.) I googled "marital property in [State]" and found this: "Property benefiting the marriage, even if it started out as separate property, may become marital property." There's enough ambiguity to make things annoyingly complicated.

Point being, arm yourself with that knowledge. It makes it SO much easier to negotiate, and it gives you a sense of control. In a negotiation, you want to have the upper hand. You want to know things that your "adversary" doesn't know you know.

And something from earlier:

I see OW as a pathetic symptom (and a truly pathetic woman.

For whatever reason, people often "affair down" and that baffles me. Use it as a reason to feel better about yourself. OW is only appealing because she is what you ain't.

[Yail]

For whatever reason, people often "affair down" and that baffles me. Use it as a reason to feel better about yourself. OW is only appealing because she is what you ain't.

I know, right? This is helping right now. I don't know if it's a coping mechanism for me or what, but in this moment I need to be very confident in myself, and realizing that OW is nothing compared to me helps. I've never dressed sloppy for work, but I'm dressing up a bit more and concentrating on carrying my shoulders down and back and to walk straight with my head held high. This is important everywhere I go.

My not-so-secret fear is that I will literally run into OW around town. I have mentally prepared myself for this situation the best I can. I will try to always look on top of my game so she never sees me as a sad Ex-W. I'm working on looking people in the eye. Keep a pleasant expression on my face and smile at people when I'm shopping. And if I do see her, I will keep my face as neutral as possible, but perhaps give her a very brief up-and-down once over look. She'll probably be wearing leggings (*eyeroll*)


note: Sorry for fans of leggings. Not my cup of tea