MLC, WAS, or both

[Yail]

Journaling

W is leaving this afternoon at some point to go back to next-state-over. I slept terribly, which will likely lead to a bad day but I'll try to keep that in mind when I'm feeling negative. W's brother stayed the night last night, but I barely saw him. He had stayed at their parents' for the holiday, but our house is very close to the airport, and his flight was at 5:30am. So W and her bro came to the house at about 8:30pm and went straight to bed so they could wake up at 3:30am. I wished bro a good flight - he's a nice guy. W was so awkwardly nervous. "Yail, this is (bro's name). Do you remember him?". Ummm yes. He walked you down the aisle at our wedding. He has stayed with us before. Of course I remember him. But I just smiled and said, "Hello (bro)". Bro was sleeping on the pullout in the living room so I went to the bedroom early and went to bed. I woke when they were quietly leaving this AM, and tossed and turned for the next few hours.

W has gathered more things to take with her. This part is so, so hard. It's hard that she doesn't seem to be struggling, but I know she is. Of course she is. It's hard that she's so bullheaded. I do think that eventually she will regret this. But I don't know if she will a) do it "in time" for me to be available or b) be humble enough to approach me. She has such pride, and she knows what she did is so inexcusable.

I wonder if it's her pride that keeps her from temp checking me or the regular back and forth behavior. She does not want to give me false hope. And I think in her work with her IC she has been made to realize that this is not a decision to make lightly, so she'd better be sure. And I think on a scale from "maybe" to "extremely sure" she leans towards feeling "extremely sure". So that's the decision she's made and she will stick to it despite the doubt. The job out of town helps her with that too, that it is the only logical choice.

My IC has expressed that she's a bit surprised by the very quick timeline in all of this. I'm not sure how to take that, so I just shrug. I guess IC feels it speaks to W's MLC, and it just being kicked into hyperdrive.

I try to remember that when W is gone I've been working on getting into a new routine with my days/evenings, and that my emotions will calm down again. When I'm at work I'm able to laugh with coworkers. I'm trying to find things I like to do for GAL. But then it will be January, and that's when we'll really be in the D talks. I wonder what affect the holidays will have on her.

I'm trying to imagine where I'll be next summer. Will I still feel like this? I hope not. Will W still have contact? Where will I be living? It's all so much, that I'm really trying to focus on today or this week.

[Yail]

burned, I see how your W is a bit like mine right now, but I remember reading that it wasn't like this for a long time. She would text you "hope you're well" or other pleasantries to get a response, right? Mine never did that. Not once. Our texting became less and less as the tension grew, and now the texting is zero except for maybe 1 or 2 logistical and to-the-point texts. In a month.

She went from zero to 60 incredibly fast. I have no idea where her head is at.One day she was loving W, then she was withdrawn due to some of our tension, then very withdrawn with friend dying and OW. Then we went to freaking Italy where we spent 2 weeks together every second and had an honestly enjoyable time, minus the fact that we acted like polite roommates. But our rhythm of who we were as a couple was there, and I really took charge of that trip which was a dynamic change I wish we could have enjoyed more. Then after Italy, just....done. Just done.

I wonder what 3 months of this separate lives will do to her. I don't mean that she'll be worked through her stuff and done with it all - I get that she won't be. But for so long it has felt like every week was a different beast and a different dynamic between us. What will 3 months of more or less no contact do? Will she settle? Will she be just as determined? Will she waver at all in the D?

[burned]

I wonder if it's her pride that keeps her from temp checking me or the regular back and forth behavior. She does not want to give me false hope.

Typical LBS feeling, especially the false hope part. This is the part where I use an analogy that isn't very nice but maybe makes sense. It's like leaving your dog at the shelter because you can't keep her. As you're walking away and she's barking at you, do you turn back around and give her another treat, or do you clench your jaw and walk toward the door?

And I think on a scale from "maybe" to "extremely sure" she leans towards feeling "extremely sure".

Typical LBS feeling. AnotherStander and Steve85 will tell you that we ALL think this when it's happening. "She's 100% done, there's no hope." But many of them change their minds later.

My IC has expressed that she's a bit surprised by the very quick timeline in all of this.

Who knows. Maybe it's like ripping off a band-aid. Or the opposite, she ISN'T sure of herself so she forces herself to act quickly before she changes her mind. No way to know, pointless mind reading. Sandi2 told me that the LBS is TERRIBLE at even guessing what the WW is thinking at any moment.

I remember reading that it wasn't like this for a long time. She would text you "hope you're well" or other pleasantries to get a response, right?

Initially, yes, but far, far less after I went dark. And I don't know that it was to get a response, or because she needed something. Now I think it's really just part of her need to feel like she's not as terrible as everyone knows she is. Maybe she even knows. Same with the happy thanksgiving text. She gets to tell herself, and probably other people who she wants to pity her, something like, "Look, I'm being so nice and cooperative, he's the one being cold and distant. Then I'm doing the right thing!" After she cheated, lied, and manipulated. Whatever helps her sleep at night.

She went from zero to 60 incredibly fast. ... Then after Italy, just....done. Just done.

Who knows, maybe something changed with OW. Maybe your W initially had doubts, and OW had doubts (maybe OW was in another relationship), and it wasn't clear that it would work out between them. Then maybe something changed, either the Italy trip solidified your W's thinking, or something changed with OW, making OW a better option for whatever reason. It's all just ugliness and pain.[/quote]

I wonder what 3 months of this separate lives will do to her. I don't mean that she'll be worked through her stuff and done with it all - I get that she won't be. But for so long it has felt like every week was a different beast and a different dynamic between us. What will 3 months of more or less no contact do? Will she settle? Will she be just as determined? Will she waver at all in the D?

I hate to have to say this because I'm also saying it to myself and I hate hearing it. But 3 months isn't enough time to change anything. And she might waver in the D but you'll never know it. And she has lots of doubts and fears but that won't change her decision. I mean, don't forget that every book you read or every piece of advice you hear about "forget the past, get rid of what's bad for you even if it hurts, so that you can build a better future," that kind of stuff has been on her mind since long before you knew anything was wrong.

[FlySolo]

W has gathered more things to take with her. This part is so, so hard. It's hard that she doesn't seem to be struggling, but I know she is. Of course she is.

My H took three weeks from the time he got the keys to his flat to the time he actually MO. During those three weeks I would go to work in the morning and he would spend the days ferrying stuff from the house to his flat. I too was hurt by how easy it all seemed for him. But when I look back, he was on auto-pilot. He would wait for the children and I to leave, get up, take things to his car, take them to his flat, put them away, and then come back and do it again. Auto-pilot takes no thought and no emotion.

I wonder if it's her pride that keeps her from temp checking me or the regular back and forth behavior. She does not want to give me false hope ... And I think on a scale from "maybe" to "extremely sure" she leans towards feeling "extremely sure". So that's the decision she's made and she will stick to it despite the doubt.

... she is extremely sure [right now].

Your W actually sounds a lot like me (except for the cheating, abandoning my partner part). If it were me, the reasons I would be moving full steam ahead with as little emotion as possible is that I know if I stopped for even a minute the emotions would threaten to overwhelm me [her] and I [SHE] CAN'T LET THAT HAPPEN because it may weaken my [HER] resolve. In the privacy of my [HER] own room I [SHE] will be breaking down . But never in front of other people.

She also sounds a lot like my H.

The day he moved he said he had to come back for something in the morning and said he would drop me off at the station. I waited. He was 2 hours late which wound me up. When he eventually came, we had an R talk, and I ended up throwing my wedding ring at him. He still drove me though. I was in tears in the car. He pulled up at the station, I got out and he drove off. All I could think was how could he leave me, the woman who, until 6 months ago, he professed to love with all his heart, crying by the side of the road.

I spoke to him a few months later and brought this up. He said he had to go because he was going to start crying too. He actually drove three blocks and couldn't drive any further. He had to pull by the side of the road because he couldn't see through his tears.

I try to remember that when W is gone I've been working on getting into a new routine with my days/evenings, and that my emotions will calm down again. When I'm at work I'm able to laugh with coworkers. I'm trying to find things I like to do for GAL.

This all sounds great. I was no-where functional this early on after BD. Some days I couldn't even face going into work. For the first time in my life I locked myself in toilet cubicles and meeting rooms and cried and cried.

I'm trying to imagine where I'll be next summer. Will I still feel like this? I hope not. Will W still have contact? Where will I be living? It's all so much, that I'm really trying to focus on today or this week.

No matter where you are living it will be a home because you will make it a home. She may or may not be in contact. Who knows. But you will be fine. You are making great strides already.

I have watched Nannette. I was looking for something funny. It made me cry instead. For a woman who likes nothing better than to spend her nights with her dogs and warm cups of tea, she is very very powerful.

[Yail]

I spoke to him a few months later and brought this up. He said he had to go because he was going to start crying too. He actually drove three blocks and couldn't drive any further. He had to pull by the side of the road because he couldn't see through his tears.

and

If it were me, the reasons I would be moving full steam ahead with as little emotion as possible is that I know if I stopped for even a minute the emotions would threaten to overwhelm me [her] and I [SHE] CAN'T LET THAT HAPPEN because it may weaken my [HER] resolve. In the privacy of my [HER] own room I [SHE] will be breaking down . But never in front of other people.

I logically know this is what W is doing. Both of these things. In a phone conversation a few weeks ago she said that she had a break-down the night before where it all hit her. She doesn't use the word "break-down" lightly, so I take that to mean hysterical crying. In that moment I was pre-DB, but part of me started to understand that's the stance I should take. I said something non-committal when she told me. If I remember correctly I was trying to say something validating (though I didn't know what that really was), but she was just kind of rambling and I don't think she heard me. Watching her decisive actions I know she is plowing ahead to get through this. This is her MO, and what she feels she needs to do.

To respond to burned's earlier comment about a change in OW status: possibly. OW is newly divorced (from a man). She's a childish wild-child with the emotional intelligence of a shoe. She lives and works here (they met at work), and has kids here. According to W, the relationship with OW "was never going to be serious" and she "knows OW is not the answer". All I am positive of is an EA and a kiss. I refuse to think about more, but I do assume it has progressed despite the physical distance. Cars exist for a reason. So they are both in this childish mentality together, which is just so stupid.

[Yail]

W just left. Once she left I cried for the first time since she asked for D yesterday (well...except in IC. But first time in the house when I allowed myself those pitiful wailing sounds). It lasted about 2 minutes, now I'm a bit better. I'm surprised by my emotions in all of this - when I think it should be terrible I cry a bit. When it's something minor the big tears come instantly. What interesting things I am learning about grief and how it flows. I like to imagine with every cry I get a little more of the negativity out of my body, leaving space for the positive. And on the way out the tears cleanse something.

She came home (from where? I don't recall. I think her parents) early afternoon and I was practicing bassoon. I'm really quite pleased that this is one of my GAL hobbies I'm returning to. W walked in the door while I was practicing a long-tone and giggled a bit. If you're not familiar with a bassoon's tone, it's a bit like a soft, odd, duck. Unless you're a beginner or back-to-basics like me. Then it's just a comical noise She called out, "I didn't know what that was at first!" me: "Yeah, (former bassoon teacher) told me I have to do my long-tones! Gotta do the basics".

She packed her car with all the items she has been gathering from the house. She took more than I anticipated, but everything was legitimately hers or we had duplicates. Nothing for me to mention to her, so I just did my thing. Played on my computer while drinking tea. Finally came into the kitchen to say "bye". Let me know she was still planning on coming back next weekend, as it's both her mom's bday and her friend's funeral service. She asked if it would be okay if she stayed here. I told her I thought that would be okay. She said to please let her know if I change my mind, but she would prefer to stay here if I was okay with it. I confirmed that she will be back Saturday and stay to Sunday. She will confirm details with me this week and asked my preference on communication - phone? email? I thought about it and said i didn't really have a preference, anything she felt comfortable with would be okay.

The friend's funeral service is touchy for me, as it is the original connection to OW. So even though I assume W is still seeing OW, this is a confirmed time when they will be together. That is very difficult for me.

This weekend was strange. I'm sure I came off as a touch cold in my attempt to detach, but I tried very hard to have a pleasant voice. I guess I'd rather be a touch cold than too emotional at this point. It's just that I only spoke to her when I had to respond to something, so there was very little talking. I only could come up with one or two legit questions I needed to ask her for logistics to show I was taking care of my needs (knowing her schedule so I am not surprised). There wasn't any time for me to put up a boundary, because everything she is doing is within reason, so I respond in a way to show she's acting appropriately. I just don't have a chance to show that I'm taking charge of myself and my needs. I'm seeing that I do have NGS (g for grrrl) as I read more on this forum.

I'm so convinced that despite this all moving forward as a D that W is not leaving. W has LEFT. I know it logically. But I'm still kind of in denial that she has moved her life to this other town, and that we're not trying to make it work. Seriously, SO FAST this all happened from my perspective. I am just so very confused.

[Yail]

Last night I went out with my mom for dinner and a couple drinks. Mom and W were really close friends for years (remember, W and I have an age difference) and had their own separate friendship outside of W & I being M. It was always an interesting dynamic, but we all worked really hard to keep our individual relationships unmuddled by the others. W cut out mom a while ago when things started getting tense in our M, and poor mom didn't know what was going on to her friend and why she was being rude and awful. Now that we're moving forward with D I am carefully (though not fully) more open with mom about what's going on. Mom blamed herself, thinking for whatever reason that the M was tense because of her (mom is ULTIMATE NGS and blames herself for any dissatisfaction in the family. 100% learned behavior on my part that I am now learning about and addressing)

I will not tell her about OW, though I know she suspects. She even suspects the correct person, so I'm not sure how that came about. She won't ask though, and I won't tell her or hint at it. I also don't dive into the details of where W and I both failed in our M. I just say that W is having a MLC of sorts, and she needs to figure it out on her own and there is nothing I can do but let her go. I told mom that the only thing I can do is validate that W has to do what she feels is best for her, and I'm sad that it's not this M, but I can't beg and plead for her to stay. Mom gets this, and we talked about a few occurrences in W's life recently that likely were early indicators of MLC that we didn't see.

I really saw last night just how emotionally unprepared W is for so much of her life. Everything in her life is just catching up to her, and she is not equipped to handle it. I guess that's what MLC is - not having the tools to really face mortality and life's difficulties.

I refuse to badmouth W in any way to parents, and I've told them from the beginning that I will not tolerate badmouthing from them. This is about W & I, and what W's current needs are. That is all. Parents are attempting to be supportive and helpful, but they've never experienced a D and have been together since high school. So they tend to say the wrong things. I have to just take a deep breath and either draw my line with them or just politely listen to them rambling and saying wrong things.

[burned]

Parents are attempting to be supportive and helpful, but they've never experienced a D and have been together since high school. So they tend to say the wrong things. I have to just take a deep breath and either draw my line with them or just politely listen to them rambling and saying wrong things.

Be sure not to let what they say “sink in” indirectly. My parents have been my closest advisors aside from IC and the people here. I try to find the consistent themes in all of the advice I get before making any solid conclusions. If 3 different people, all of whom have been healthy adults for far longer than I’ve been alive, are telling me essentially the same thing, then there must be a lot of truth in it. On the other hand, whereas AnotherStander always talks about all the people he knows who have reconciled, my mother just this morning said she knows tons of people who went through D and none of them reconciled. They’re all happier with their second spouses. So who knows? Many of my parents’ friends are high-achieving, aggressive, wealthy people whose divorces were probably bitter and drawn out, lots of fighting and damaged professional reputations. Whereas people like AS have seen DB work it’s magic. Oh, and on that note, prepare for people to think you’re nuts for DBing. It just doesn’t make sense to people. The standard response for me has been, “Are you kidding? I would have dropped her like a hot potato. What’s wrong with you? Where’s your self-respect?!”

Just that you’ll get varying opinions and you have to protect yourself from the emotional whiplash that will inevitably result from that.

[Yail]

I guess what I mean about my parents saying the "wrong" thing is they're too many steps ahead without pausing to even ask how I am. It's how they see helping me. On the day I told them we were separating they started talking about what to do with the house and "you won't be alone forever" and things like that. I was like...woah. I get that I'll need to address all this. But can I have ONE day to be sad and just mourn? And stop swooping in to rescue me about the house. W and I will work out whatever needs to be worked out regarding finances. I'm close to them, so if I need help I will ask. But they want to just step in and take over my life to help.

They over-parent me and I'm 34. I have spent years telling them to please back-off, that I'm adult who genuinely loves them and loves their support. But I am making my decisions. They assume I have zero money because W made so much more than me. I have a good job. I'm not destitute. But I choose to live simply, and don't buy material things so they think I can't afford it. Literally every birthday they buy me some new piece of technology (this year it was a bluetooth speaker). I just don't USE that stuff. Know what I've asked for in the past? knitting needles. Opera CDs. They always ignore this because they assume I'm being modest in my requests, but those are things I get genuinely excited about. So I'm kind of used to the parents just not listening or understanding.

Interesting what you say about people's reaction to DB. Obviously I've never use that word to the few people that know about my situation. But when i describe how I'm reacting most people call me "strong" for going through this without blaming her. I don't know how I feel about that reaction either, but I guess I'll take it. I just explain that I don't feel the need to blame her for living her life. Taking the OW out of the conversation helps people see this, they don't know the whole picture and I don't want them to. Because I truly see OW as a pathetic symptom and I do my best to not give her a second thought. My story is this: W is hurting, W is doing what she needs to do for her own self care and self growth. I am sad our M is ending, but support W's need to grow on her own terms.

[Yail]

I keep having these flashes where I see W in a different light. I see areas that I want to grow in my next R. I see my NGS issues. I see that I need to ask for what I want. I see that W really did stonewall and keep me out of her deep thoughts.

Mostly I see that much of the D request in such a short timeline is about her guilt. She can't believe she cheated on me, the one person in the world she swore she would protect and love at all costs. She shouted it from the rooftops but also showed me every single day in her actions. She is so lost, and being very kind and removed so this will proceed with as little pain as possible for me (and for her?). Knowing her as I do, I have to be realistic that I don't think she will delay her D proceedings. I don't think she will come out of her A fog and feel any true remorse before D. when she does feel remorse I don't know that she'll be able to reach out to me. I realize I'm mindreading.

I wonder if she knows how deep some of her shame runs, and that I really think her distance is about hating herself as a person. She was a self-described bully as a child. She was asked to work with a professionalism coach for a past job that was more or less all about anger-management. This was never about our R, it is about her unlove for herself that just became too much to bare. In one of our R talks over the past few months I told her I saw her as a kicked puppy sometimes. She acts so tough and brusk. Dismissive at times. And then when her guard falls she is just deeply wounded and depressed. But when she was happy she would shine and I fell in love with that person. I worry she won't reach the other side to self-love.

I was able to sleep last night by daydreaming about moving to Italy for a while. I think over the next year I'll need a change of scenery. I wonder how I might make that happen.