Dealing with a WW trying to save marriage pt2

[SoTorn]

I am not going to validate that it's my fault.

Validation is not the same as agreeing. Nobody said to agree with her.
It's about listening and understanding. It isnt about what you believe to be TRUTH.
It's about what she believes and you showing empathy to understand her viewpoint (even if it's crazy or false).

A couple other things Ive noticed in your recent posts that I want to bring to you to consider.

1) You point out regularly that you arent going to talk to her about finances or things related to that. I dont really understand your reasoning for that. It has nothing to do with your relationship. Id say if she is willing to discuss reasonably and calmly, that it is something that makes sense to do. Why are you actively avoiding this talk?

2) I notice that you give off an air of "holier than thou" and judgment when talking with W. I dont really understand that attitude. That attitude for blaming and fault isnt really a way to resolve this. Youve both made mistakes - stop keeping score and try to move forward.

I explained why I wont talk finances. Because we dont need to. All the bills are paid. My check still goes towards the bills. So there's nothing to talk about. She uses her making more money as a pop intuitive thing.

I dont have a holier than though attitude. Every time she tries to talk she instantly blames me or finds some random justification for her false perception of me.

When WW does this i just disagree, advise I'm not going to talk if shes going to just blame me and if shes talking to OM still.

I'm not waiting for temp checks. I'm GAL. I have detached. Yes I see her due to IHS. Yes i notice shes trying to tempt check. I dont react to them at all. I'm staying cordial.

I am not pursuing her or initiating conversations. I am treating her like an introverted roommate.

At this point I have no expectations for her to change paths. Therefore, I'm doing 180 or NC if possible and in GAL.

In out running around today. Prior to me leaving WW asked why I always lock my car in the garage. I told her not to worry about that. WW kept pressing because I was trying to get out the door. I calmly told her that I have pictures of her with OM from when I caught her that I dont want the kids to see. I was being truthful. She stopped asking after that.

My wife is not telling me about any feelings. She has never done that. She never says "I feel like this" what comes out of her mouth is "you are going to be sorry for telling your mom about my A" how in the hell am I supposed to validate that?

WW isn't giving me anything to validate. If she does, I will listen and validate. Please understand that I have known WW for 21 years. I can tell when shes just trying to talk or if she is baiting me for conflict. As of now about 99% of her interactions are baiting me for conflict.

Therefore I will not talk to her or validate anything. If she suddenly starts telling me about feelings I'll switch modes.

[neffer]

You need to stop that kind of contact with W. You need to set her free. It doesn´t matter how long that you know her man...Give her time and space to figure out her sitch. You shouldn´t be pressuring her. If she start telling her feelings just validate and listen, STFU after that.

Good luck man, try to stick to DB, please.

[burned]

Sounds like you know what you’re doing and have everything under control.

If the advice you’re getting here isn’t helpful, or if you feel like it’s redundant, what is your purpose in being here?

I’m not trying to be sarcastic, it’s a question worth thinking about.

It’s fine to be very angry. In fact it’s healthy. You seem to be frustrated because despite how well you feel you’re implementing DB, you’re not getting what you want. That’s normal! It’s part of the journey.

You’ll get some advice that might be uncomfortable. It’s not to make you feel bad, it’s to point out areas where you might be able to make some changes. My observation is that you have an opportunity to think about how your reactions to the feeling that you might have done something wrong (fear) can lead you to cause more problems for yourself (anger). Why do I say that? Because I used to be like that, and I suffered the consequences. Now I’m here to help other people like you learn from my mistakes.

Just keep in mind that people here are trying to help you. Don’t be afraid to be open to the idea of change.

[SoTorn]

And I'm not blaming her. I'm just saying that I am not to blame, because the first thing out of WW mouth is literally that this is my fault. If she wanted to talk about feelings or unhappiness in our marriage I'm all ears. I told her this. WW does not know how to communicate without putting someone down.

[SoTorn]

I'm mostly just journaling. Also, there is good advice, such as GAL. 180 etc. All worked well.


I'm honestly not angry. Do I have resentment? Absolutely. But I am honestly making every attempt to GAL, not get drawn into conflict, not anger or hurt my wife etc and to he a great dad.

The only thing that has changed is that WW has been approaching me more. That's it. No good conversation yet.

If/once she starts to actually talk about feelings, I will absolutely use the advice to validate. I'm not trying to make her feel bad. I'm just avoiding conflict at all costs. Unfortunately, every single time WW wants to talk, she comes in hot. I can tell in her voice she is prepped to argue. I'm not doing that.

Honestly I can tell that how I am acting has thrown her for a loop because now that she doesn't have someone who will argue back, someone pursuing her, pleading etc, she cant seem to figure out what to do.

I'm not trying to be rude to her. But again WW seems to think that I am out to get her. I'm not. I'm just avoiding conflict at all cost and bettering myself.

[burned]

And I'm not blaming her. I'm just saying that I am not to blame, because the first thing out of WW mouth is literally that this is my fault. If she wanted to talk about feelings or unhappiness in our marriage I'm all ears. I told her this. WW does not know how to communicate without putting someone down.

When you say it that way, what I hear is defensiveness. That’s OK, it’s a protective feeling. But I can tell you from experience that it’s not useful. I used to come home from MC sessions FURIOUS that my W was trying to blame everything on me. The more I argued back, the less she felt like her opinions and feelings mattered. I remember multiple times when she said, “You always make everything about YOU,” and I said something like, “No I don’t and I hate that you keep saying that.” Can you see how someone might feel bad hearing that? Do you think that person would want to be around you, if every time they said something, you made it seem like they were wrong and they felt like they didn’t matter?
Well, that’s what happened. That’s what I learned. And my W is preparing paperwork to file for D, as far as I know. So it didn’t work in my favor, that’s all.

[burned]

I'm just avoiding conflict at all cost and bettering myself.

That might be your problem right there. When people avoid conflict, the reason for the conflict doesn’t go away. It just goes underground. So don’t avoid it! The best advice I’ve gotten here in the last couple of weeks is to lose the fear and stand up for yourself. Don’t fight back, but don’t back down. State your view of things without invalidating hers. So rather than lashing out with pent up resentment, which appears weak, stand your ground firmly, which appears strong. That earns you respect.

[ovrrnbw]

You aren't to blame? Yes, you are. You have contributed to the situation you are in. Which is good, it means you have the ability to change your part. You also need to let her go, and allow her to be herself without being in charge of how she does or says something.

You seem angry and combative. You have said things to her that you know, I know, and everyone knows will make her feel bad. If you can't start owning up to your mistakes, why should she? Conflict avoidance is something guys with NGS do. Are you going to read the validation links and read about NGS?

If WW "comes in hot" to talk, you validate, listen. Every WW/WH tries to argue with the LBS. You then fuel her fire by putting down her family, arguing back, or telling her how she can't communicate without XYZ.

[MoveFrwd]

I explained why I wont talk finances. Because we dont need to. All the bills are paid. My check still goes towards the bills. So there's nothing to talk about. She uses her making more money as a pop intuitive thing.

OK. Then thats fine. Is there a reason that she wants to talk about finances? For a possible split or to move out? Does she have any understanding of what exists for the family in terms of bills, savings, etc?

I dont have a holier than though attitude. Every time she tries to talk she instantly blames me or finds some random justification for her false perception of me.

Like over said, she is not 100% to blame, and you are not 100% to blame. In my opinion, the marital breakdown responsibility lies somewhere in the middle. Could she have done things differently? sure. Could you have? sure.

When I say "holier than thou", Im pointing to these kinds of exchanges:
"I again told her that I do not want divorce, and cannot stop her, but I will not help her destroy this family completely. ". To me, it is taking the standpoint of you are doing "everything right" and if she would get on the same page, then everything would be "good". And she is doing all of these things to "destroy the family". To me, it absolves everything that you ever did to contaminate the relationship. I dont recall everything youve shared, but I have a hard time believing that you havent done things that led to disappointment, frustration, hurt, etc in the past. Im not saying that you need sa scoreboard or saying that she is in the right. Im saying that your attitude should be less on shaming and blaming her and more on self awareness and empathy.

She is out doing who knows what with who knows who. And thats not right. But I think throwing it into her face doesnt make you look like the more attractive option. If your goal is to make her angry or hurt or want to move out or whatever, then great. But if your hope is to reconcile, then I think biting your tongue and learning to STFU would b e beneficial in these kinds of situations.

I have detached.

Ive seen you write this several times, but Im not sure that you really understand. Theres a scene in Apollo 13, where they unclamp the module or something and you see it just float away. That ISNT the kind of detachment we are talking about. It isnt about leaving W alone to go off and GAL. It isnt about not starting conversations. It isnt even about what she is doing. It's about you. It's about learning to keep your emotions in check. It's about letting her talk and just listening with a kind of "meh" attitude. Its about her going off to see OM, and your reaction being "whatever" rather than "Im going to send a profanity-laced note". It's a hard process, and theres no shame in still having some emotional attachment - it's hard not to....If youve truly been with and in love with this woman for 21 years, I have a hard time believing that you can emotionally dissociate yourself from her in a few weeks...if you can, that may say more about the state of your marriage than anything else. It [censored]....I know. Ive been there too.

In out running around today. Prior to me leaving WW asked why I always lock my car in the garage. I told her not to worry about that. WW kept pressing because I was trying to get out the door. I calmly told her that I have pictures of her with OM from when I caught her that I dont want the kids to see. I was being truthful. She stopped asking after that.

So to me, a detached answer would have been more along the lines of "thats my space and Id like to keep it personal". To me, throwing that line about the pictures out there was only intended to poke at her. to hurt her. to remind her of the hurt she is causing you and the family. that doesnt seem like detachment to me.

My wife is not telling me about any feelings. She has never done that. She never says "I feel like this" what comes out of her mouth is "you are going to be sorry for telling your mom about my A" how in the hell am I supposed to validate that?

You shouldnt. You dont even need to respond to it. You definitely dont need to validate her every time she opens her mouth. You pick your spots. And in the times where she is spewing hot garbage, you say "I dont want to talk with you about this while XXX and YYY" and you leave." Stop stating your boundary and then caving - just because she keeps tirading you. Stand your ground and hold your boundaries. Remember a weak bundary is worse than no boundary.

I can tell when shes just trying to talk or if she is baiting me for conflict. As of now about 99% of her interactions are baiting me for conflict.

If this is true, why are you having so many conflicts with her? Stop taking the bait.

[neffer]

^^^^^ A headshot from Over!

Listen, validate, STFU, go GAL

You aren't to blame? Yes, you are. You have contributed to the situation you are in. Which is good, it means you have the ability to change your part. You also need to let her go, and allow her to be herself without being in charge of how she does or says something.

Good advice

Then stick to DB basics, please ST!