Dealing with a WW trying to save marriage pt2

[SoTorn]

I know shes bringing up MR questions but all she can see right now is her justification for D. I just keep repeating the same thing.

I'm not going to be bullied into filing D. WW got mad because I did not want to talk. WW says "then talk to my lawyer!"

I asked her what in the world she thought she needed a lawyer for right now and she literally said "I dont know"

IHS is a pain when the WS keeps trying to push an issue based on their perceptions. WW is convinced the kids are just ok and want it to be over with. My kids dont want to go through a D. Kids and I want WW to wake up.

[neffer]

I know man, and it’s hard to be there living like strangers. Remember then: believe nothing that they say. Selfishness prevails above common sense. You can’t be dealing with WWs. Give her time and space to figure out her future. You must keep DBing man!

[SoTorn]

WW posted some spiritual third eye quote on FB. She hasn't posted anything. Something about "I can see it and know what I means but others can only see it"

Odd for her to post. WW was sitting next to me and I simply asked her if she was getting into astrology or feminism or something. Because that's the IG page she is following. It was a literal question. I wanted to know. I know it wasnt detaching 100%. But it was non relationship small talk.

WW got mad and went upstairs.

[Yail]

Re: the quote on FB - I feel that folks who post those as a general rule do it as a passive aggressive or emo-angsty cry of "look at ME I'm having so much INSIGHT and FEELING. Ask me what's going on that's so dramatic in my life". Sorry if that's a bit negative to folks who might post lots of positive or inspirational quotes or memes on FB or social media. I just think we all know that some people post these only for attention. So in asking from the very neutral space you did, it was still some kind of asking about where she is emotionally, and it might have been perceived as pressure.

Perhaps I'm reading wrong, but my two cents. I am also watching people post this kind of meme on FB, and they're people I know that are going through some [censored] in their life. For them, it's definitely a cry for attention.

[ovrrnbw]

Kids and I want WW to wake up.

Sounds like the troops are rallied. So what next, apply the pressure and make her do what you want?

You should probably ditch facebook. Get rid of yours. You'll spend your time more productively, stop stalking your W's page, and make her wonder what you're up to. Then because of facebook you asked your W a weird question and pissed her off. I can see how your "question" offended her.

MWD says to think about what you're going to say and ask yourself "Is what I'm about to say going to bring me closer or further apart from my spouse?". You need more of that.

I tried to stop her but she just tirades into how I need to leave

It didn't work. Quit trying to win the argument. Listen. Validate. Commit to your 180's.

I again told her that I will not discuss anything with her if she is blaming me for this situation. I again told her that I do not want divorce, and cannot stop her, but I will not help her destroy this family completely.

So you told her you won't discuss anything with her if X. X happens and you continue the discussion. Don't set boundaries you won't enforce. Go read the boundaries links.

I told WW that just because her family is quick to try and choose sides and manipulate the kids, my family can see past the situation, they still love her and that they are there to support us and even just her, should she need it.

So you attacked her by saying bad things about her family? Then you try to nice guy her back? Stop doing this.

You come off so passive aggressive, and you just dump gasoline on the fire. I sense a great deal of innuendo in your conversations with your W.

[SoTorn]

I am not going to validate that it's my fault. No I did not attack her family, i spoke the truth, which she knows. WW knows her family is nuts. Her family is trying to recruit my kids. Man you really have no clue what's going on here.

I'm not trying to be a nice guy. I'm not doing anything but the opposite of what I would use to do.

I didn't dump anything on the fire. I got her to leave me alone.

WW has taken a small interest in me actually because I'm doing a 180.

For example. I went to the gym with a friend. He came by my house afterwards. I am looking very good. Best I have looked in a very long time. WW came downstairs and I introduced her to my buddy, who is my wing man now and is an alpha Male.

He told me that as she walked behind me she stopped and checked me out hardcore. Then she went upstairs and came back down again and just sat looking at me until I noticed. I said nothing.

This is completely different than the last two months of her not coming out of her room at all.

I can clearly see that she is confused as hell why I'm not pursuing her, engaging her, pleading, following etc.

Although very minor, she has started to come around me a lot more the last few days which she wasnt doing at all. I'll take it at face value.

Old me would be yelling and screaming and pleading etc. I have done none of that. No gas here. Just confident me.

One thing WW said earlier was "this is unhealthy for us, how are you feeling about this?"

I replied that I was fine. She got a very confused look on her face and just did not understand how I was fine.

[neffer]

Just read what Over wrote. You are playing ping pong with W. You are waiting for the temp checks...

Reinforce DB: no expectations, no R talks, not mind reading. IHS is hard man. Don´t pick up the crumbs, don´t go for the chit chat talk. Be the SoTorn 2.0, amoafwl!

Get out and GAL. Free W, free yourself.

Patience and comitment man.

[MoveFrwd]

I am not going to validate that it's my fault.

Validation is not the same as agreeing. Nobody said to agree with her.
It's about listening and understanding. It isnt about what you believe to be TRUTH.
It's about what she believes and you showing empathy to understand her viewpoint (even if it's crazy or false).

A couple other things Ive noticed in your recent posts that I want to bring to you to consider.

1) You point out regularly that you arent going to talk to her about finances or things related to that. I dont really understand your reasoning for that. It has nothing to do with your relationship. Id say if she is willing to discuss reasonably and calmly, that it is something that makes sense to do. Why are you actively avoiding this talk?

2) I notice that you give off an air of "holier than thou" and judgment when talking with W. I dont really understand that attitude. That attitude for blaming and fault isnt really a way to resolve this. Youve both made mistakes - stop keeping score and try to move forward.

[AnotherStander]

WW posted some spiritual third eye quote on FB. She hasn't posted anything. Something about "I can see it and know what I means but others can only see it"

Odd for her to post. WW was sitting next to me and I simply asked her if she was getting into astrology or feminism or something. Because that's the IG page she is following. It was a literal question. I wanted to know. I know it wasnt detaching 100%. But it was non relationship small talk.

ST, oh my. Well that was rude of you. First, don't discuss anything with her that she posts on FB. That just appears to her as snooping. Second, "getting into astrology or feminism or something" is clearly insulting and if you don't think it is then you are very insensitive. When I see an LBS post something like this it's a red flag, it says to me that there may be a repeating pattern where you say terribly insulting things to your W and have been for years and don't even realize it. And when she reacts negatively, instead of seeing it as an offensive mistake on your part you instead think she's being stubborn and overly sensitive. And if you're firmly in the grips of NGS, you're reading this and already formulating an explanation for how it was a perfectly reasonable and innocent thing to say. But it wasn't.

I am not going to validate that it's my fault.

This tells me you don't understand what validation is, because it has nothing to do with accepting blame for anything. Amoafwl offered a good description. Validation is simply seeking to understand someone's feelings and offering them support. Like in the above example, you could approach your W and say "are you upset about what I said?" "Yes, that was very insulting." "I'm sorry I made you feel disrespected, I can see how what I said might make you feel that way." Do you understand? You are not apologizing for what you said, you are apologizing for making her feel a certain way.

No I did not attack her family, i spoke the truth, which she knows. WW knows her family is nuts.

You seem to think you completely understand her and how she thinks. That's got to be enormously frustrating for her.

I can clearly see that she is confused as hell why I'm not pursuing her, engaging her, pleading, following etc.

Mind reading.

She got a very confused look on her face and just did not understand how I was fine.

Mind reading. Here's the thing ST, you have no idea what she's thinking and feeling, you're just filling in the blanks. And when you do that, it leads to a lot of frustration and misunderstandings.

2) I notice that you give off an air of "holier than thou" and judgment when talking with W. I dont really understand that attitude.

^^^Completely agree^^^

[ovrrnbw]

I am not going to validate that it's my fault. No I did not attack her family, i spoke the truth, which she knows. WW knows her family is nuts. Her family is trying to recruit my kids. Man you really have no clue what's going on here.

Heehee, OK. The other guys already made the comments on validation is. I'm going to suggest again that you read the Validation Links.

I'm not trying to be a nice guy. I'm not doing anything but the opposite of what I would use to do.

People with NGS are consciously trying to exhibit NG behavior, it's deeply ingrained patterns of behavior.

I didn't dump anything on the fire. I got her to leave me alone.

Yes, you did. You attacked her. I take more offense to people attacking my friends or family than if they said something about me. Who cares if it's true? You said your W knows that her family is crazy, right? If she already knows it, why are you telling her that they are crazy? Do you think she forgot?

WW has taken a small interest in me actually because I'm doing a 180.

For example. I went to the gym with a friend. He came by my house afterwards. I am looking very good. Best I have looked in a very long time. WW came downstairs and I introduced her to my buddy, who is my wing man now and is an alpha Male.

He told me that as she walked behind me she stopped and checked me out hardcore. Then she went upstairs and came back down again and just sat looking at me until I noticed. I said nothing.

Going to the gym isn't really a 180. Is your W fed up because you are out of shape? What are her chief complaints? Your alpha bro friend is a new friend and I don't why he matters? You need friends for your GAL, not to impress your W. Physical attraction will mean zilch when the WS is thoroughly fed up with the way you act. The WS usually gets a lesser match with the OM/OW because....... of the way the OM/OW MAKES THEM FEEL!!!!

It's clear that your attitude is what has rubbed her the wrong way. Looking great is going to do little to nothing for your sitch.

This is completely different than the last two months of her not coming out of her room at all.

I can clearly see that she is confused as hell why I'm not pursuing her, engaging her, pleading, following etc.

Although very minor, she has started to come around me a lot more the last few days which she wasnt doing at all. I'll take it at face value.

Old me would be yelling and screaming and pleading etc. I have done none of that. No gas here. Just confident me.

One thing WW said earlier was "this is unhealthy for us, how are you feeling about this?"

I replied that I was fine. She got a very confused look on her face and just did not understand how I was fine.

Not pursuing is good, GAL is good. Not yelling and screaming is good. If your W tells you about her feelings again, you should validate her feelings first and foremost.

And I was going to use the "holier than thou" phrase in my last post but I didn't want to offend you. If we see it, she has seen it a hundred times over.