Finding the Balance and then Tipping the Scale

[sandi2]

Amoafwl is giving you good advice. I don't know that's it's necessary for me to respond to the questions you asked regarding my statements on the WW threads, but I'll do my best.

Originally Posted by Sandi2

That leads me to the second part. As the rejected party, the H cannot enable her in this terrible, disrespectful behavior. Every time he does, it will set him back. Before he can show her what a wonderful & improved H he wants to be, he has to prove what kind of man he is. All of this still comes under the heading of DBing.

Originally Posted by Wonka

For DBing to be successful, the LBH needs to come down HARD on the WAW because the emotional allure is like a powerful riptide tearing her and the M asunder.

Originally Posted by Wonka

2-LOSE YOUR FEAR of WAW. Reclaim your balls back from her purse.
3-Pull out the "not willing to live in an open M/no-OM boundary" script.

( I need more information on all the above, are there breakdowns of what these mean and what specific actions to do/NOT do?)

Well, that's a tall order. I don't know that I can do it in one post, unless you can be a little more specific about what you don't understand.

A lot of WW's are extremely manipulative. By the time the H comes to the board for help, his WW has usually stepped over several of the H's personal boundaries, and maybe even boundaries in the M. However, we find many H's filled with so much fear that they are paralyzed to stand up for themselves. They want to apply soft, sweet, bubble soap to the dirty WW situation......and it just doesn't get the job done. (Refer to my description of the WW mindset.) When he reads about men taking back their b@lls, he wants to pull out and find something that will tell him to buy her flowers, clean the toilets for her, have long talks by the fireside, and act like her BFF. Some guys don't even know what we mean by reclaiming his b@lls. They don't realize that when they have a WW, it's all about her loss of respect for him as a man/husband. The lack of respect has killed her desire/attraction for him. Until he gets her respect, none of that other stuff works to draw her desire for him as a man. He has to work on the respect factor, first. When dealing with a WW, that means he has to show her that she can't run over him. He's not going to be her doormat.

Some WW's bully the H. It may have started out in a more subtle manner after the wedding, but over time, it increased. Some WW's are spoiled. He was focused on trying to make her happy, and keeping the peace. It was all about her...…...to the point that he dreaded the possibility of her being upset or angry at him. So, he did everything he could to keep her satisfied. In the process, she took his b@lls, and now it may feel a little scary for him to think about taking back his b@lls. Why? B/c it requires him standing up for himself...….which usually means standing up to her when she's disrespecting him. Calling her out when she shows disrespect toward him. Enforcing boundaries (which means she has some type of consequences due to her disrespect). He has to first respect himself as a man, before he can expect her to respect him.

It only means that the man starts acting like a man, instead of a scared little boy who has a angry mommy. It means the man enforces boundaries to protect his feelings, dignity, self-esteem, etc., from this person who is trying to tear him down and ruin their MR. It means he shows he has enough backbone to stand up and say he won't take that type of disrespect any longer. However, his actions speak louder than any vocal cords every could.

At the point where his WW is in an affair, it's like she is on drugs. He cannot reach her with some "soft" method he read in some book that tells how to put spark back into the MR in ten easy steps. Things have progressed way, way past that point. Unfortunately, once a man has lost his W's respect, he can't nice it back again. He can't sweet talk back the respect, or do enough housework, etc. I wished it worked that way, but it doesn't. Even if a WW gives him a list of complaints as her reason for D...….it's nothing but b.s. The true reason is that she doesn't feel in love with him. Some of those complaints might have been legit, back in the day, but now he could perfect everything on that list and it would not change her heart. She still would not respect him as a man. That's what I wish newcomer men would get through their heads. Forget housework being the secret to her heart. She wants you to act like a man who will not accept bad treatment from her or anyone else. She needs to admire you as a man.

Wonka is giving an example of a boundary. The boundary is, "I will not live in an open marriage". If that's your boundary, then don't be afraid to say it But, let me also add that if you are not prepared to back up your word, then be careful what you say. Some guys think by saying these words, it stops the WW from cheating. It doesn't. If she continues, then the ball is in his court. What's he going to do? If he continues staying in the MR, then he didn't enforce his boundary. See what I mean? He can't allow his fear of losing her dictate weak (or no) actions She has a choice to either honor his boundary and end the affair, or dishonor it and continue her affair. If she dishonors his boundary of not living in an open M, then the "action" is up to him to do. He either physically separates from her, or files for D. (NOTE: Don't share any of this with her. This is just for you.)

This is the ultimate example of enforcing a boundary. Enforcing means you stick to protecting your feelings. You can't control her actions, but you control what you do in response to her disrespect. You take the necessary steps to protect yourself from her actions/behavior again. It can't be some type of wimpy move. It has to have consequences for her. FWIW, that's why I don't agree with in-house separation, b/c it has all the benefits and no consequences for her. See what I mean? She's living under the same roof, but separated? How do you do that? In her viewpoint, she gets to do whatever she wants, plus you're suppose to continue playing the role of husband and happy family...….until bedtime, then you go into your room, and she goes into hers. She benefits from the M and has no consequences for her affair, cheating, girls gone wild behavior, or whatever. In other words, she has your b@lls in a crunch...….cause, whatcha gonna do?

When reading the guidelines for LBH's with a WW, you can skim over the replies from others (Hope that doesn't sound bad to say.) .....but please don't skim over my posts in those threads, b/c I tried to point out these things you are asking.

Yes I know I said too much but it also felt good to let her know I wasn't scared to lose her.

Just remember, actions work better than words when dealing with a WW. I'm glad if felt good to you, just realize you may have to back up your words. Words work as an emotional lever and gives us a temporary relief, but they aren't near as effective as action.

When she texts, not going to jump on it. Maybe not even respond like tonight when I was working out.

The point is not so much about ignoring her as it is about not allowing her texts to consume your time, thoughts, and energy. She didn't want in the MR, remember? Once she wants back in a loving MR, then you can focus more on texting. Until then, use two or three words for your response.....or an emojo. LBH's get so wordy! WW's use texting as way to keep the H emotionally attached. She'll send him photos of the kids, text him to ask how the kids are (as if he's not capable of caring for them), or just to temp check him about something. So, if you'll stick to using as few words as possible to answer her texts, I think it will help you get a better handle on it. You'll also start to see how she'll try to get that control back.

As for laundry, she still does mine.... I .. will.... tell... her … not... to...do...that... anymore /sadface. When it comes to buying meals or dinner, I might tell her no need.

I wouldn't go that far right now. Let's work this other stuff out, first. I mean, it's complicated enough living under the same roof.

I don't think you should jump up and leave the room every time she enters. It's your home, so try to be as comfortable as you can. I recommend you try to spend most evenings and weekends away from the house. Don't get all cozy with her on the couch, watching chick flicks. Know what I mean?

Definitely wont be catering to her but sometimes in the past we went out and she'd say I'm not bringing my wallet... is this the time to let her know we will be going dutch?

If you are separated, why are you going out together? See, this is one of those blurred lines when living in-house S, and the WW benefits from playing like one big happy family.

(In between typing this was also reading the WW series and the Reflections. I do have questions like in the past when she said, "I am wanting to go with my friend for the weekend to the company yearly golf event" if I said I don't agree with it and she insists, what can I do at that point besides trying to rationalize with her?

Let's look at a non-wayward, first. You need to understand that she's not asking for your permission. She's an adult, and unless she is asking you to pay for the expenses, keep the children, or something along those lines...….then she really doesn't have to ask. Some non-wayward W's ask if it's alright, but that's a polite way of just checking with her H to let him know what she wants to do. Frankly, I don't think it's enough for him to just say he doesn't agree......especially if they are not having marital problems. What is he not agreeing with? If I were the W, I would appreciate knowing what he had a problem with. Had he made previous plans for that weekend? Did he not approve of my friend, or where we were going? See what I mean?

Now, if she is wayward and you suspect her of cheating, and suspect she might be going to meet OM...…..what can you do to stop it? You tell her you don't agree? Then what? You don 't actually believe that will stop her, do you?

She wants for both of us to drive our boys to an out of town Christmas light show next week. I said sure thinking about the holidays may be the exception for family time.. Thanksgiving is coming up and we will be doing a small family get together. Are there posts on the best way to handle these events?

It's probably the most challenging time to be in an in-house separation. She's going to want to play happy family as though nothing has changed in the MR. It's my opinion that she needs to see that's not how it works. But, it's usually the H who has just as much trouble denying the WW these shared family moments...….especially when it revolves around Thanksgiving and Christmastime.

When she was working from home on my computer the other day, she had her Citrix up and I saw the company email... go ahead and let her do her own thing and not care or is this where we put our foot down? This is the confusing part, We stop the disrespect if she says something, I get we challenge but what about the other stuff like the going out, the events? How do we come down hard regarding those things with her time and how/where/who she wants to spend it with?

Okay, first of all you are separated! Now I don't know what you mean by putting your foot down, but usually it means you forbid something or you stop putting up with it one way or another. If you start telling her what she can and can't do...…..she will accuse you of trying to control her. And, she'll remind you that you're separated and it's none of your business what she does. If you feel disrespected, then what else can you do? Maybe you can think of something, but ultimately, you can physically separate, or get a divorce. The consequences need to fit the crime, so to speak.

My suggestion about something she does that makes you feel disrespected under your own roof, is to tell her you feel she is disrespecting you. Then tell her if she continues with the same behavior that you cannot continue living with her under the same roof. That's not meant as a threat. It is a boundary, and if she does not honor it, then one of you will be packing and leaving. If you can't stand behind it, then don't say it. Also, remember physical separation and divorce is the ultimate consequences you have to give. I'm not sure what you were talking about her having her Citrix up and the company email. What does that mean?

Sandi, didn't earlier you say get a schedule and we use that for things like this? Don't question her, don't do nothing about where she goes etc right? Is this coming down hard, meaning we can care less what she does? By showing her we don't care, she'll care?

The "coming down hard" that I talked about in the WW threads, is in regard to how/what a H should do when dealing with a WW. When she's verbally and overtly disrespecting him. And especially when he discovers she has been deceiving and betraying him, and is in an affair. But once you have separated in the M, then you are limited to what you can do. She's going to do whatever she wants, and if there are no consequences, then there's no skin off her back.

Are you separated or not? If you are, then act like a separated couple! Have a schedule, so you can plan ahead GAL activities. Show each other respect while staying together under the same roof. You don't care what she does in her personal time...…..but when she's there under the same roof with you, she has to be respectful. She can't talk to you like you are a dog, curse at you, make you the butt of a joke in front of others, or put you down in front of your kids, throw tantrums, etc. You know when people do things that are disrespectful. So, you surely know when she is not showing respect to you. But since you agreed to an in-house separation, I don't know if there were any stipulations about seeing other people, or her affair, or whatever. When a WW is in some type of an affair, an in-house separation does nothing to stop it.

So anyway, it's not about trying to control what she does. It's about treating one another with as much respect as you would give anyone else who was paying for room/board there. That's how you should treat her, and you should expect the same from her. If she can't show you at least that much respect, then tell her this arrangement is not working. If she doesn't try to do better, then you should probably physically separate or divorce.

But when it comes to words, we check the disrespect? Need more info on this, I think I asked above.... Need to know when we check her disrespect, what's appropriate and what is not, like what's over the top.

Verbal disrespect, and the types I named above, are never okay. No matter the living the arrangement, you don't put up with any of that cr@p from her, and especially in front of your kids. IMHO, it would be disrespectful for her to openly talk to OM in your presence. She should have the decency to go to her room, at least. I really think texting is very rude at the dinner table, especially when it's to OM...… but there's not much you can do, other than tell her to have the decency to go to her room if she's going to communicate with him. (Don't tell her in front of the kids.) As MWD says, choose your battles. You have to choose which hill to die on, sometimes. Sometimes you can just call her out about something.....and it takes care of it. Depending on what "it" is. If she is leaving the computer monitor open to something you find offensive, or inappropriate for the kids to see...….and this is somewhere other than the privacy of her bedroom......then just tell her. When a WW is in the thick of an affair, she can get very careless.....b/c she isn't thinking normally.

Sorry for such a long post. I don't know if I addressed all your questions, but if not, you can ask again...….if I didn't break the Internet.