Introduction

[TJT]

@Acc - thanks for the time you took in your reply. I really do appreciate that on principle alone, but also what you've said is helpful, even if it only seems to help little by little!

Quick update:
My dad came to visit for a long weekend and then as he left today I also flew out for another business trip.

The visit with my dad was okay. He helped me with some things around the house and even bought me some Christmas decorations (I wasn't planning to do anything). That said, in some ways I thought it would be better, like I would feel more "connected" having my family around, but I found that I just didn't feel like myself in some ways. It was definitely great to have plans and have someone to go out with each night for dinner, etc. but I also didn't totally feel like he fully understood what I am going through (he and my mother divorced, and of course they both try to compare the situation) and I think, perhaps a result of that, I felt like I suppressed talking about certain things. I also didn't want to make the visit a complete whine session on my part, knowing I could probably fill the entire weekend with just that.

So ultimately, I kind of felt like I was not being authentic, and while I did enjoy the "distraction" I also felt like I was sort of faking my way through it as if I was in a more stable state than I really am. There were times I wanted to be upset that I didn't let myself, etc. I guess that's no different than the other GAL activities, but I think it's also more reinforcement that when it comes to family, I don't feel really close to mine and in some ways it exacerbated the feeling of the loss of closeness with my husband.

Also, I did find more shared calendar info during the visit. It was an entry for someone's birthday party next weekend. On a whim I texted my H's gal pal's ex-boyfriend and he confirmed that the name was a child cousin of his ex who will be turning one. So it's seeming more and more likely that they are still seeing each other AND seems like he may even be meeting her family, which is super interesting to me because I just can't imagine how those conversations are going...how they met, what happened with her and her boyfriend (they were together for 4 years so not insignificant) and oh yeah, this guy is how old?

Anyway...back to your other comments, Acc:

what it really meant was that they had an office birthday party for him and he requested chocolate cupcakes. In this case, you really don't know what that one year quote was in reference to, it literally could be anything. Please just keep that in mind as you go forward, your imagination is your own worst enemy.

Yeah, I told myself the same thing, it just seems like the more I give him the benefit of the doubt, the more I find out that proves me wrong. At this point my intuitions, even those that I remember slightly having a year ago, seem to be winning here. But I get the reasoning either way. For the record though, I don't think I care at this point if it's a sex act or cupcakes! lol I've just been trying to get any validation that they are still seeing each other just so I know the situation on his side.

Your course of action should be driven by what you want to do, not how he will react to it. Does that make sense? This has everything to do with you and how you want to live your life.

It is, however, useful to think about this. When we're married, we're married to three people really: (1) the person we thought our spouse was when we married them, (2) the person our spouse actually is now, and (3) the person we want our spouses to be in the future.

It sort of makes sense...because I know I need to be happy with myself and my decisions, for sure. But at the same time it IS confusing because of how DBing teaches us to 180...so I'm always trying to determine what his current expectation is so that I can figure out what the "right" 180 is that might have the most impact. And that's made even MORE difficult since I'm dealing with someone who I know doesn't acknowledge, let alone make transparent, his true feelings or emotions that he's dealing with, and thus why in my last post I wrote about being so conflicted about whether his actions are really HIM or a symptom of something else.

Unfortunately, many people see (1) and (3) much more clearly than (2), because (1) & (3) are all about us and not that much about them. If you are, or have been, "married to hope" it really can be valuable to step back and really think about "who this person is" based on what they've *done* in your marriage (not just the bad stuff), versus what they've said. What they've done, or "how they've shown up" in the marriage in the past is the best indication of how they will show up in the future. People *can* change, and the balance between you, or how you come together can change, but there's an enormous amount of inertia that must be overcome with a tremendous amount of motivation. Does he have that motivation to change things? Will he?

I like how you put this, because I do feel like there are things I've ALWAYS "hoped" for the marriage that never came to be, and I have a hard time remembering that. BUT I think part of the reason is because he really has shown up in phenomenal ways in the past! Before the past year or so, and even still at times during the past year, he has done great things as a husband that DID meet my "expectations", if there's a positive way to even use that word. This is what puzzles me the most. I mean when we had just moved into the house, like JUST, we were in the garage looking out at the road, and he was listening to some music and a sweet song came on that he said always reminds him of me. He was still talking about the future together as if he was planning on being around for a while (and these were things I took specific note of and felt better about).

So I'm starting to think that the "answer" is somewhere in between... I think there are parts of him he hasn't ever fully let me see, even if there are parts of him that are great - and I think there are great parts of him that he is suffocating, for whatever reasons, and either changing or simply not holding true to his real values even if they are still there.

To your point, I know he'd have to want to change or change back in either case. It's just that knowing he has been a good husband before makes me feel like it's more possible than not, and I just wish there was something that could catalyze the realization in himself! I know it's not something for ME to "fix"...I just want to so badly because I WANT to see him grow and how much of a positive thing it could be to really put in that work vs. just avoiding or replacing or whatever. I care about him as a person and of course I'm biased in this situation as to what I think would be "best" for him, and I know that if he has to "learn" whatever I think he should learn in a different (albeit a potentially much harder way) then that's just how it is. I can't control his life or how he chooses to live it and I am working on accepting that as much as it [censored] and seems so stupid.

I am 100% afraid of letting him go because of ME, not him

YES! 100%. He represents stability, validation, and a resumption of your ability to have control over your future. That is really what you want, you want what he represents to you based on where you are right now. Step back and realize he is not those things.

This may have been one of the most helpful perspectives yet. Thank you!!

If he came back tomorrow, you would not feel secure in your future with him, you would continue to struggle with validation because of how you feel about yourself due to the choices he's made, and those things combined would not allow you to feel good about your control over your future. Even if he was back you would spend some time feeling like you're leaning back in a chair that's close to falling over, and that's no way to live!

Yeah this is where I have this total fantasy in my head that even if came back, he'd be capable of fully, 500% understanding AND acting all the things he'd need to do to make me feel that security. I'm thinking of it in such a detached way from myself, but like not in the good sense of detachment, I don't think. Meaning, I'm thinking of this almost like he's a student (and NOT that I am the teacher, to be clear), but I feel like okay, he doesn't understand what he's going through, or how to deal with his feelings, or how to be emotionally vulnerable, etc. But if he learned those things or was working on learning those things actively, then I would feel better and empathize and not be so hurt by what he's done, because I'd know at that point it was just him not having a healthy understanding of certain things, vs. he's just a terrible person who doesn't care about my feelings.

I do get that even if that did happen, I can't predict how I would actually feel. And that how I think I would feel would likely not be the full reality. This is one more thing that confuses me about why I'm so intent on wanting to make this work, because I definitely don't want to live in doubt either. I just can't get past what "could" be and the immense amount of loss from "giving up" on the situation. What you said earlier about my brain just wanting a shortcut is the clearest explanation for that and I will keep thinking about that. I have definitely felt like an addict in withdrawal in terms of being so frustrated with myself that I can't just let all of this go.

The other part of me hates the thought of giving up and feeling like neither of us really "won", as seems to be the case with most Ds

That has NOTHING to do with him, and everything about you wanting to avoid feeling like you failed. Once again, even if he came back tomorrow you will need to process those feelings because of everything that's happened. Getting him back will not circumvent that. It just has to happen. You're right that typically everyone loses is D. The silver lining is coming out of it stronger, being more self-aware, with better relationship tools. That can be a real win for you in the future!

I will admit I hate the thought of a mutual loss that was largely controlled by one person, not necessarily because I can't accept failure, but because this was the one thing I always expected would only occur after a pretty long and and strong fight. Not just all at once with a bunch of surprises wrapped into it. I do feel like I am being blamed for things or punished for the things that I admit I do need to improve. But it's not that I can't accept my part in it; it's that while I feel "good enough" as a person, I don't understand why I wasn't good enough for him to look past the things he may have grown tired of with me to want to work on the marriage, and as a result I don't feel like "I" was given a chance to grow into a better person and wife for him, and together with him. THAT is ultimately what I want and expect in a marriage, that even if we fail at times - which I fully expected we would - that we would work on it together. I even wrote that in my wedding day letter to him, and I did that time and again with his faults, in ways and in specific situations that I honestly think other people wouldn't have/won't.

I want to fail, but then analyze what happened, adjust, and get back up and stay the path...it's having to pick a completely different path and accept the loss of control and security and certainty that you mentioned earlier that is more my problem.

When I discovered that my exW was cheating on me I created a virtual storage locker of everything that I'd found, and for months after the fact I would go back and review it, review the timeline, re-read the detail, etc. It would rip the bandaids off and plunge me right back into total hurt. It was the equivalent of punching myself in the face and giving myself a black eye every once in a while. Why did I feel compelled to do that? I don't know, but eventually I stopped and I felt better. Not sure you can skip that part.

Thank you for sharing/admitting that. I am getting a little better about it but still slip up... I do sense that I am getting less compelled to do those things, but I know it's going to happen here and there for a while still until I'm fully weaned!

Good luck to you TJT, no matter which way this goes you *will* be fine, and you *will* be stronger than you were before. That much I know. Happiness awaits and you will go back to feeling loved and valued, either with H or with someone else. That much I know.

These words mean so much to me, even coming from a complete stranger over the internet. There is connectedness in community and having shared similar experiences, that's for sure, and this little nod makes me feel understood and like there is also hope down the "other" path, not just the one I'm trying to hang on to.

Meanwhile, this is my first business trip where me and H have been fully NC, me not wearing my rings, etc. I have been acutely aware of the fact that I no longer appear as a married woman to the general public, and I hate every minute of that, both personally, of course, but also the weird impacts it has on how we are perceived professionally. I considered bringing them as a backup emergency button type of thing, but told myself I can't use that as a security blanket because reality is reality. There are certain situations I may definitely still use them for, but this was not one of them where I felt like it was actually necessary. It would have only been for me and I didn't want to deceive myself.

This also means there are people I have not told about my sitch yet who are likely going to find out this week, either by noticing the lack of rings or perhaps by asking about H..

We will see how the week goes and I'll be pretty busy so may not have much time to post, but will make sure to come give an update! I do have some additional tactical questions I've been meaning to ask here, but just hasn't been a priority for now.