Journey Continues #2

[ballast]

So when I said “engage with me” I did do those things for her, more specifically to “help” her. So yeah I guess that was NG mentality, although to me NG would have been my being more blatantly subservient. Also it was definitely not done in hopes of sex as a reward, but I was hoping for a return. My hope was that taking stresses away from her life would allow her to be less frazzled and maybe allow her to relax more and talk with me about regular things of life and not exclusively her stresses. In that way I saw it as a positive to our MR. She always had stresses, I never did. While I would put down the devices, mute the TV, make direct eye contact and listen to her, the constant stresses day in/day out over time it wore on me. I would never have not listened to her, commented as best I could on what she said, but it was non stop. When we first started dating it was fun conversation, light, jovial, by the end it was just the stresses. I was just trying to lift some of that burden off of her in the best way I knew how.

Making dinner and taking care of D I for sure saw as our work and not her work. She was commuting home from work when I was doing those things so I did see it as balancing the load and being a team. That it might help her stress for sure I hoped for that.

I think women want to feel the W & H are a team, accomplishing what needs to be done to keep the home functioning to the standards they both approve. If both spouses can share in that work b/c they love their family and take pride in their home.....then they are on a healthy track.

Those points in bold are crucial. I thought we were a team, she did not and the reason I believe that to be is that we had different expectations on the standards we approved of. I was far more “relaxed” in my standards than she. She did everything immediately, me, I’d get to it. It was a fundamental difference in our personalities for sure and I believe there was resentment on both of our parts that the other would not come more around to our point of view. I accept I could have been more proactive, but in truth the two of us did not communicate our expectations and negotiate standards that we agreed to and we should have.

It wasn’t until a good bit of time had passed that I realized how stressful doing our finances was on her. You are right that she likely would have appreciated me carrying some of the weight BUT her pride would have made it hard for her to let me I think.

Don't lay on the couch watching tv while she's at the desk sweating over how to cover all the expenses. See what I mean? Look at the bills with her. Look at how to stretch the money with her. Discuss it with her. Just talking about things, is a stress reliever for women. Teamwork is the name of the game. Otherwise, the W sees her H just laying back and sticking her with all the responsibility while he takes it easy, and that's why she resents it.

So anytime W wanted to talk, I did as I described above, gave her my undivided attention BUT I was most times laid back in the recliner with the TV on. I was VERY conscious of making sure she knew I was listening to her BUT how she SAW me, for sure I could still see her resenting me. Again, I can see how I could have done much better here.

A lot may contribute to each personality, but I also believe the more the man is quiet and passive, doesn't stand up to her when he dislikes something she's done, leaves most decisions and/or responsibilities up to her, and he doesn't command respect......the more bossy his W will become. One reason is b/c she feels she has to step into the man's role. And when she does, she's going to take his b@lls. I see a lot of my H and myself when you talk about you and your W. I was seen as the stronger, more outgoing personality. He was quiet, reserved, and a nice guy. He learned to stand up to me, and I learned to show the man respect. So, I know couples with opposite personalities can have a good MR, if they work at it. My grandmother once told me that you never reach the point of not working on the MR.....if you want to have a good one. Boy, was she right about that!

In the personal experience I have of my parents, while my Mom pretty much ran the show, I never thought nor saw her be bossy to my Dad, BUT having read a great deal on here and elsewhere I can understand the how and why that could/does happen. It’s painful to think that I will likely not have the ability to apply much of what I’m learning to my current W/MR, but I will at least be able to hopefully apply it and improve myself for a future relationship. W was definitely the more vocal, emotional personality which can give the perception of strength, BUT my quiet, calm, logical personality could convey the same AND as we were opposites, W would say I was her “balance”. Initially at least she felt this way, but as the MR went along she began to see it as a negative AND something that we could never change for the better. And simply put we did NOT work on our MR. I always expected it would be constant work, W in her own way perhaps thought she did try, but in the end she left. I may never know if it was because she thought she tried and failed, she didn’t want to do the work OR she didn’t think she had to, it was just easier to move on.

I believe either spouse who is being disrespected should calmly approach the other one to bring it to light and to tell them it won't be tolerated. If they can calmly discuss their feelings, etc., that's great, just as long as it's understood disrespect will not be tolerated. Catching early signs of disrespect is much like catching a disease early......the success rates are higher. The problem I find in the stories on the board, is that one spouse allows the other one to continue showing some level of disrespect, in some form.

I think this is my biggest challenge and perhaps for other men. I’m not confident that I could detect the subtleness/codes/tests of disrespect that a woman could throw at me. I don’t speak indirectly/in code/etc so perhaps I’m not hearing when she’s being that way towards me. And at least as best as I know we started off in our relationship without any of this stuff and then as the relationship progresses it begins for whatever reason. I just don’t think I “catch it” and by the time I do it’s too late. You have said before how us men have trouble understanding women, I think for me this is my least understood issue that I need to deal with. She could have been throwing disrespect haymakers at me for months and I may not pick it up OR the relationship “as best I know it” was/is still going along positively enough that I’m stupidly willing to accept her “nagging”…she must just be having a bad day right?

Men will also suffer b/c they are trying to appease the entitled-thinking daughters of these silly/angry women…Does any of this make sense, or am I talking in circles?

What’s ironic about this to me in my MR is that while my W clearly believes herself entitled, in absolutely no way was her mother a silly angry woman. W did not get this from my MIL. MIL does not understand W’s decision at all. What is telling though is the anger with which W has said “I don’t want to be like my mom, this is not the 1940’s”. And yes what you say makes complete sense. In so many of your posts to us guys I feel like your simply trying to say “For God’s sake dude be a man!!!” and flabbergasted when instead guys go off being Mr. Mom around the house. LOL I can sense your thinking “what the H happened, have these guys forgot how to be men?” I think at it’s core your advice to us is just be the traditional, strong, confident man God meant for us to be. It’s funny that you think YOU are talking in circles because nowadays for us guys with modern women we’ve been inundated from all directions about how we need to do this, do that, no don’t do that, do all this, but please be sure you don’t do that unless…it’s really easy for US to feel like we are spinning in circles as a result AND the real madness in it for many of us is that we are only trying to do whatever we can do as men to make the woman that we love and cherished feel happy and loved.

This breaks my heart, and it makes me think of my own son.

Firstly, thank you for your kindness…for ALL of us on here that you’ve helped. It’s simply a helpless feeling as I’ve alluded to above when as a man I loved her with all my heart, the best I knew how but I was woefully unaware of and unprepared for much of what we’ve discussed. I am thankful to feel as though through this loss I have better prepared myself to grow and be a better future spouse, BUT dear God help me why can’t I get the chance to apply what I’ve learned and save the MR with the woman I’ve loved throughout. Things happen in life for which we have no control over and we lose people we love. I’ve suffered greatly for many months, BUT I have endured and learned through it. In a way with my parents aging and many family I love doing the same, part of me feels as though this was God’s way of teaching me an important lesson. I can only pray that his plan someday heals my heart and with time and the benefit of hindsight I’ll see this as a necessary chapter in my life. I have a very good understanding of what you explain regarding the draw of the bad boy/alpha male. I believe I can adapt some of the positive characteristics to myself while at the same time avoiding the negative aspects.

This is where I want to pull my hair out.

I guess it stems from two MR betrayals, the circular thinking/confusion about what ladies want and what am I not doing or doing wrong. Even though everyone tells me there is nothing I could have done in my present sitch, rectifying that reality with myself is a struggle. It’s probably heavily rooted in my inability to understand WHY she left? By blaming myself as the cause it serves as a “write in” form of closure so to speak although it totally is counterproductive to my healing and moving on to a better future relationship. Again something I need to work on and hopefully with time those thoughts will go away.

Thank you Sandi…I definitely understand what you’re saying.

-B