Journey Continues #2

[sandi2]

That wasn’t done out of NGS, but rather I thought part of our problem with connection was her constant list of stresses so I thought if I could remove the top 3 off her list MAYBE that would allow her to feel less frazzled and more likely to engage with me.

I disagree. I think it is done out of NG mentally. My H used to do housework for me, hoping I wouldn't be so tired that I'd have sex with him. Basically, that probably sounds very logical to a man. Thing is.....I knew he was doing it to get rewarded with sex...….and I resented it. Why couldn't he do it b/c it needed to be done? Why was it seen as "my" work, instead of "our" work? I wasn't getting rewarded for doing housework, but it still had to be done. If he didn't get rewarded, he wouldn't do the work. See what I mean? You started out sounding as if you cared about the stress level your W was under, but at the end of your sentence......you revealed how you really wanted some type of return or reward from her. You wanted to be rewarded by her engaging with you. Women are usually pretty keen on reading the H, and if there is already SSM issues, or other resentments......she's going to resent him more for trying to be rewarded for doing something that's considered housework where both of them live and are responsible for the work.

My question is, if you were doing the cooking and taking care of the child, what was your W doing during this time? Was she doing other housework, or was she relaxing? See, some guys mess up by not maintaining balance. If you were doing all of that every evening, then she should have been doing other chores. This should have been seen as "teamwork". You saw it as relieving some of the stress off her......like you were doing her a favor, which may go back to you seeing your father doing nothing once he got home from work. However, if you are doing everything and she's just resting and not taking part in the housework...….that's going to fail in most cases. She'll develop a sense of entitlement, and she'll start expecting you to do more & more....while she does less.

When both spouses have a fulltime employment, and if they have children...….there is plenty of work every evening to be shared. I think women want to feel the W & H are a team, accomplishing what needs to be done to keep the home functioning to the standards they both approve. If both spouses can share in that work b/c they love their family and take pride in their home.....then they are on a healthy track. However, if one spouse is doing it all, while the other spouse does nothing, there will eventually be feelings of resentment. Those resentments are usually pushed down in their hearts and never resolved without the help of professional counseling......and the results show in other areas of the MR.

Again I can see some tangible improvements I can make regarding being passive. Finances I let her handle entirely and I did so because she was so good at it for our family, BUT it stressed her to no end AND she became resentful that I didn’t have to deal with it. It as like “we have $100 extra, I can put it on A, B or C” and I would say “whatever you think is best”…that wasn’t me trying to be the passive NGS guy, bottom line I simply TRUSTED HER so I didn’t engage in the debate.

It is extremely stressful for women to feel totally responsible for their family's finances. It's good that you felt you could trust her, but she may have wanted you to participate as she was writing out checks, or do something that indicated you were carrying some of the weight with her. She felt the burden was solely on her. It goes back to the teamwork. If she does a great job, then you don't have to shut her out, just become a team player. Don't lay on the couch watching tv while she's at the desk sweating over how to cover all the expenses. See what I mean? Look at the bills with her. Look at how to stretch the money with her. Discuss it with her. Just talking about things, is a stress reliever for women. Teamwork is the name of the game. Otherwise, the W sees her H just laying back and sticking her with all the responsibility while he takes it easy, and that's why she resents it. Again, don't leave it all up to one spouse. (Speaking of spouses before they find the MR in a wayward situation, affairs, rebellion, etc.)

She did try to boss me around again I really believe she tried to claim the masculine role as a result of her prior relationship. In my mind it was simply “You don’t tell me what to do, BUT I”m not going to get into an argument with you and tell you that”.

A lot may contribute to each personality, but I also believe the more the man is quiet and passive, doesn't stand up to her when he dislikes something she's done, leaves most decisions and/or responsibilities up to her, and he doesn't command respect......the more bossy his W will become. One reason is b/c she feels she has to step into the man's role. And when she does, she's going to take his b@lls. I see a lot of my H and myself when you talk about you and your W. I was seen as the stronger, more outgoing personality. He was quiet, reserved, and a nice guy. He learned to stand up to me, and I learned to show the man respect. So, I know couples with opposite personalities can have a good MR, if they work at it. My grandmother once told me that you never reach the point of not working on the MR.....if you want to have a good one. Boy, was she right about that!

I get from MUCH of what you’ve beat into our man brains on here LOL that appropriate confrontation when our W’s get out of line is fundamental so that she maintains her respect for us, we maintain our masculine role AND that I show to her that I am stronger than her.

I believe either spouse who is being disrespected should calmly approach the other one to bring it to light and to tell them it won't be tolerated. If they can calmly discuss their feelings, etc., that's great, just as long as it's understood disrespect will not be tolerated. Catching early signs of disrespect is much like catching a disease early......the success rates are higher. The problem I find in the stories on the board, is that one spouse allows the other one to continue showing some level of disrespect, in some form. If the H has to confront his W the second time....I think the message should be presented much firmer. Not a "discussion". Not an argument. He refuses to put up with it. He sets boundaries, and she'll face consequences, if she continues to show disrespect. There's no need for a heated debate. She knows exactly what she's doing.

Here my generation of men are trying to be the Super Husband, domesticated/touch feely type we think the modern women want and yet, we men I think would be much better off continuing to be like our fathers. For many of us that’s a challenge.

Society has trouble balancing. We swung from one extreme to the opposite extreme. I don't think women wanted men to stop behaving like men. Grant it, some silly/angry women were deceived by a corrupt message (IMHO), and passed those attitudes on to their daughters, so much of society will suffer the consequences. Men will also suffer b/c they are trying to appease the entitled-thinking daughters of these silly/angry women. Men will and have paid the price with their manhood......and the young ones growing up don't even know what's all about. I don't know where the madness will end. I don't know what the answer is, except men need to take back their b@lls and teach younger ones how to be men. (I'm not suggesting they have to abuse some defenseless female, in order to be a man, either.) We need to be taught as a society how to be respectable men and women and the roles we have in relationships. The sexes have to learn how to respect each other.....without sacrificing who we are as opposites, in order to strive for some form of pseudo happiness. Does any of this make sense, or am I talking in circles?

It’s terribly sad for me to lose this MR especially as I feel like I failed as a man and a husband when I wanted nothing more to have a happy life with W forever.

This breaks my heart, and it makes me think of my own son. He's not the NG to the degree of his father, but he would never tell his W "no". He was the kind of guy the girls always wanted as a friend, but not a boyfriend. He doesn't "get it". He doesn't understand what is appealing in bad boys. It's not b/c they are bad people. It's b/c they take no sh't off the woman, and they aren't afraid of her. They are male dominate, take authority, are the alpha dog in the pack, etc. They don't carry her around as if she's a princess. They don't try to dance and around and hope she picks them. In other words, he isn't a "yes, dear" kind of guy. Those are some qualities that women like (even if the modern woman won't tell you). There are some things that are born in women that society will never change. I think that's one reason I think there a lot of them are confused. They've listen to propaganda, but then nature dictates certain things to their heart/emotions, and it confuses the mess out of them.

Psyche wise and dating landscape wise might just be best I stay on the sidelines less I disappoint another lady.

This is where I want to pull my hair out. That's a people pleaser! Why is this about you disappointing some lady? Why is this about you failing? From where I sit, it was both of your W's that betrayed the MR. Did you make mistakes? Sure, but that doesn't mean you are nothing but a failure.

Look, if you can't see yourself ever being any other way, that's okay. Learn to accept the way you are, and don't try to mold yourself into whatever pleases some woman. I'm saying to live your life by your own terms, and stop being a people pleaser. Make sense?