Point taken AD, I am struggling with this myself but I think it will be a big step forward if we can get comfortable with each other in bed. What I mean is that if I go to kiss her she does not instinctively turn away. This reflex avoidance reaction permeates her outlook on everything and I have a feeling that if she can conquer the kissing the rest will follow. Note that I said "If she can conquer" rather than "If I can make her conquer". I feel that I am getting the message at last. SD