Saturday, Last night was "our night" or more accurately in W's eyes "my night" but quite honestly I had no desire at all despite her being away for the next 4 days. She had already made it clear that nothing would happen so I self soothed and said goodnight without giving her a cuddle or anything as I didn't want to appear needy. She said "You haven't tucked me in" so I did cuddle her spoons style then instantly got turned on which she will have noticed. I asked her when she was coming home and she said "Tuesday" which led me to propose my next objective - just do it on Tuesdays and Fridays. She was a little horrified but I have planted the seed and will follow up on Tuesday. SD
Sunday, I've had an idea and may change my strategy. I have been on my own most of today and have had a chance to read a lot more PM. I am about to read the infamous chapter 11 and have taken a break to talk to you guys. It is now obvious to me that sex is not our main problem. In fact, I realise that we aren't mature enough to ML in any meaningful way. Our problem is that we are not even the slightest bit emotionally connected. We cannot hug for more than 2 seconds, we cannot kiss on the lips. We cannot snuggle on the sofa and we cannot lie comfortably in bed together. We can communicate quite well about everyday things and we can maintain eye contact while talking. What I am thinking of doing is this. On the 5th July I have my vasectomy booked. I have 3 condoms left in the box which is probably about as many as I need. I propose to throw away the condoms and announce to W when she comes home on Tuesday that I don't think we should ML again until I am certified infertile which will be about 7 weeks. Instead we should work together on trying to gain some basic emotional connection and just re-learn how to cuddle, kiss and enjoy each other's company without the pressure of sex. The more I think about it the more I like the idea. It is just too easy to get stuck in a rut trying to get sex when what we really want is love. I think that we are different to the couples that Schnarch uses in his examples because thay are having sex regularly but it has gotten boring. He improves it with his hugging and eyes open techniques. We don't have the luxury of a sex life to build on. We need to build it from scratch. SD
Quote: I propose to throw away the condoms and announce to W when she comes home on Tuesday that I don't think we should ML again until I am certified infertile which will be about 7 weeks. Instead we should work together on trying to gain some basic emotional connection and just re-learn how to cuddle, kiss and enjoy each other's company without the pressure of sex.
That sounds like an EXCELLENT idea, Dave! At the very LEAST, her reaction to the idea (and its execution) will give you a TON of information, about you, her, and the two of you...
Quote: I think that we are different to the couples that Schnarch uses in his examples because thay are having sex regularly but it has gotten boring. He improves it with his hugging and eyes open techniques. We don't have the luxury of a sex life to build on. We need to build it from scratch.
Not chapter 11. That deals with a wife who WILL NOT agree to sex - it'd be fine with her if they NEVER did it again... hold onto your seat!
The more I think about it the more I like it Tim. I will find it a lot easier to state my expectations if they do not include sex. She will have a lot more difficulty refusing to work on harmless stuff like hugging and kissing with eyes open and hopefully by the time my fertility test comes back negative we will both be gagging for it! SD - Had a good morning with the lads down at the field and my hands still smell of castor oil (only Tim will understand what I mean).
Quote: She will have a lot more difficulty refusing to work on harmless stuff like hugging and kissing with eyes open ...
True, Dave... but work on kissing first - don't expect or demand eyes open until there's at least some kissing.
Quote: Had a good morning with the lads down at the field and my hands still smell of castor oil...
Got mine yesterday. Spectacular weather. Four trimming flights... engine runs well, muffler pressure working well, tweaked the flaps, she now almost flies level! (only SD will know what I mean)
Your absolutely right Tim. I will not mention the advanced eyes open stuff. We can't kiss at all so there is a long way to go first. I have been reading PM openly and have talked to her about some of it and I think that she might try to read it. One advantage with "Passionate Marriage" is that the title is a lot less threatening for an LD than "The Sex Starved Marriage" which she immediately took offense to. SD
You guys, I'm just going to throw this in here because I've been shocked at the way I feel and how the things I wanted have changed. A couple months ago, I was wanting much more kissing, holding, cuddling, affection. Part of it was because I assumed it was part of the "physical relationship continuum" and I also assumed that an abundance of this behavior would lead up to more sex. Now, the reality I'm seeing is that the more I avoid these types of behavior, the more "unsettled" she's becoming (we know this feeling). Remember, her fuel tank for physical stuff is much smaller than our and you better be really careful about what you ask to fill her tank up with. By all means, if this boosts your emotional feelings towards her, that's great but keep your focus on the big issues first and ask her if that type of behavior is necessary. My W told me that she really doesn't need that (which unfortunately means that it's hard to convert non-sexual physical stuff into sex). Don't get me wrong, we are cuddling, kissing a little more than we used to but not as much as I thought we "should". I promise that regular sex will make you see things differently. My W was irritated that she originally felt compelled (aka manipulated) to be more affectionate but later I said I didn't need as much.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Point taken AD, I am struggling with this myself but I think it will be a big step forward if we can get comfortable with each other in bed. What I mean is that if I go to kiss her she does not instinctively turn away. This reflex avoidance reaction permeates her outlook on everything and I have a feeling that if she can conquer the kissing the rest will follow. Note that I said "If she can conquer" rather than "If I can make her conquer". I feel that I am getting the message at last. SD
Dave, have you ever seen the movie "Shirley Valentine"? For the benefit of those who haven't, it's about a middle-aged British housewife who's grown dissatisfied with her life - her H doesn't pay attention to her any more, her daughter is grown, and then her friend offers her a trip to Greece. At first she doesn't thing she "should" go, but she does, and since her friend is having her own fun and ignoring her, she goes off by herself, meets a Greek man, has a brief affair, and ends up staying in Greece. Anyway, early in the movie she spends a lot of time talking to the camera about her marriage and her life, and one quote always stayed with me - she says of her H, "It's not that he's a BAD husband, he's just no bloody good!" Well, that was very much how I was feeling about W until very recently... I was identifying heavily with Shirley Valentine. Now, however, I no longer do. Not sure just where I'm going with this, but I now view this movie differently. It's a funny movie, but I doubt if I could watch it again without being somewhat sad for Shirley, because I think it would've been better if she could have found some resources like we have and worked at making her marriage work. Maybe it still wouldn't have worked out, who really knows, her H was pretty clueless, but there would have at least been a chance.
