Thanks! I don't think that I was mindreading at all (I may be wrong.) I didn't assume she was happy or anything like that. When I said she is getting on with her life, it was meant simply as a statement of fact that she was going out and spending time with OM. It certainly made me think that in the past I would be the one she would return home to and I would be the one that she would be spending time with, but she has made another choice now. I don't think that I am in her head when I say that.
It definitely hit me then, and after the gym, and even last night a bit. My mind did go into analysis mode, but there isn't much to analyze. I already knew she checked out on the MR, I already knew she was spending time with OM. There's not much new info to analyze, just the pain of dealing with the seeing it firsthand. Falling asleep was a bit harder last night, but I was able to get up and meditate this morning and it hasn't been overwhelming my thoughts today.
I really appreciate the support!
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
You might want to read The 5 love languages by Gary Chapman. It will help shine the light on a lot of issues you and your W might have had (I know it did in my case).
Originally Posted by Davide
Vapo, I agree that I definitely need to keep working on myself and getting myself into a better place for me. I just wonder. Isn't that the work of a lifetime? Isn't that something that all of us need to do constantly in order to keep growing? It just makes me think that there will never be a single point in my life where I think to myself "Hey, I'm in good shape now. I'm ready to date," and waiting for that moment might become counterproductive. All of us are fundamentally flawed, imperfect beings even at our best. You still may very well be right that I'm not there yet. I can certainly see where my desire to move towards a new and different future could cloud my vision and make it harder to clearly see my own state.
Yes, it is a work of a lifetime. And you can't even imagine how much you can grow from where you are right now. You can even develop superpowers. And I am not kidding. If you play your cards right you might develop an unbelievable sort of intuition. You will be able to spot liars from 100 feet and you can develop your inner voice that's always right to serve as your sidekick.
The bottom dime is that you have to fall in love with yourself first. You have to love yourself unconditionally. Only then will you attract the right kind of people into your life.
I don't know that I am any better at DB than anyone else. I have been gifted with a nearly ideal situation in which to practice it. My W has been sane, consistent, firm, and has not reached out much at all. I have not shared a living situation with her since the day after BD, and I was lucky enough to be able to travel for 2 months and really put time and distance between us. Thankfully I discovered this forum less than a month post-BD which was super helpful as well since I was able to institute the principles quickly.
I completely respect your opinion about marriage. You have a strong sense of moral clarity and I wish I could share it.
For me, I never really cared that much about the piece of paper, but the commitment to the MR and to my W was something that mattered greatly to me. I never cheated or even thought about it really. I was prepared to spend the rest of my life with my W and do whatever it took to make the relationship work. For me, it was never about the institution but always about the R.
That said, paper or not, my marriage relationship is over. My W made that clear to me, and people on this site have helped me learn to truly accept that. I don't think there is any hope of R at any point, and if there is it would only be in the context of establishing a new relationship. There is no relationship for me to f#$k up at this point. In my state there is a 1 year waiting period before you can file for divorce, which means I will technically be married for at least another 6 months and probably a bit longer. I have no desire to drop the bomb and file for D, but I do feel like I need to start moving forward with my life. My W has told me that she doesn't want to spend her life with me. She is sane, not irrational at all and has given me no reason to think that this is anything but a rational decision that she has made. I feel like I need to respect that decision, work on myself and move forward. Whether or not dating should be a part of that process right now, for me anyway, depends much more on my own readiness.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Thank you and everyone else who takes the time to read and comment. I swear, at times, this group is better than therapy. I love the wide range of voices and opinions, which all come from a place of such deep empathy.
I have read the 5 love languages, and it certainly could have helped. That was a tough read (or listen, as I got an audio version)2 months post BD. So much to try out and no opportunity to do so!
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Yes, it is a work of a lifetime. And you can't even imagine how much you can grow from where you are right now. You can even develop superpowers. And I am not kidding. If you play your cards right you might develop an unbelievable sort of intuition. You will be able to spot liars from 100 feet and you can develop your inner voice that's always right to serve as your sidekick.
What is this?? I'd love to hear more about developing this level of intuition!
Ultimately, yep, loving and accepting yourself is the prerequisite to truly loving and accepting another person. 100% on board there. That's a work (a long time) in progress.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Davide I think you answered your own question when you said "my own readiness". As far as "dating" maybe the word and what it conveys is more the problem. How about more like "I'm interested in meeting new ladies with no expectations"? Given your circumstances and with all due respect to the sanctity of marriage, would getting out to do something as simple as that be wrong? My personal opinion is no, but the only real answer is when YOU are ready.
And if W left you and is already with OM, how much of your sitch is HER doing and how much is owned by you? I mean if she has moved on, are you truly in need of that much self reflection OR were you basically a good but imperfect husband and it is SHE that really needs the work? Again ALL of us can do much to improve ourselves as partners for sure, but just because we find ourselves in these circumstances does not directly mean that we have a huge mountain of self reflection, internal work, etc to do to become whole again. Sometimes if the other person just bails out...hope you get where I'm going with this.
We can give you the gamut of opinions, only you will know when you are ready. Main thing is you have no need to rush. For sure when trying to move forward we are all just trying to find our new path, allow yourself the time to let it come natural.
I am also on the side of 'readiness'. Only you can figure out what you need to get there and what you can live with and what you can't. Some people need to have the D done so that they can date. I totally understand that. For others, the M is already dead and once they are ready, they can move forward in that area of their lives.
I haven't dated or even looked to move ahead in that area of my life so far. I am getting closer to it though. My friends are bugging me a bit about it, in a nice teasing way, and asking me to get out and explore. They ask me - what are you waiting for? And my answer is this, which I figured out a while back when I got my DB bearings properly - "I am not waiting for her, I am waiting for me." And I know that I will figure out when I am ready. My M is dead and there hasn't be a single thing from W that would indicate that the ship may be turning around.
I just didn't want to date as a response to feeling lonely, wanting to be loved, appreciated, etc. I knew that I had to find my equilibrium first and figure out what brings me joy in life, including being happy with who I am and working towards personal development. Only then I would feel comfortable spending time with someone on a date because I know that I am not going to use them for filling any void in my life. Even if it was just one date with no physical intimacy - I don't want to take up someone's time because they could've spent it with someone else who was ready to move it forward if they clicked.
A question that I ask myself every day when I am dealing with things at work, in life, or in communications with W - How do I manage this so that it aligns with my own values? This completely stops me from being reactive and I listen to my inner voice and find the answer. Just asking myself that question allows me to respond in a way that I am comfortable with because it come from my value system.
You'll figure out what works for you and when you're ready. I take people's advice as another data point to consider and then make my decision based on my values and needs.
For sure, I know that for me at least, dating is about my own readiness more than anything else. No one can tell me when that is, but it is helpful to hear opinions and experiences from those that have been there.
In terms of needing self-reflection and growth, I think that was a major need for me. Obviously my W has her own issues and more than anything else it is her actions that led to my sitch. However, like a lot (maybe most?) people here I was not in a good place emotionally. I was codependent and not nearly self-sufficient enough. I relied far too much on my W to fill my emotional needs and provide me happiness. I think that I have been pretty upfront and honest about that here, and more importantly with myself, since I started BDing. That is something that I am working on and plan on working on probably for the rest of my life.
The thing is for me right now it feels natural to reach out and start exploring in a way that doesn't have any expectations. To put myself out there and meet new people. That feels right, but I am hesitant because I know I have blind spots.
Maika,
Good to hear from you again! I feel like you and certain others are like wise older Jedi's who appear suddenly to help me and others to find our internal "force."
I hear you loud and clear about using others to fill a void in our lives, and I agree to an extent. However, I do question how it is that different from going out and GALing by building new friendships and extending our social circles. Getting out and meeting people while climbing, deepening the friendships I have with the people I bike with - these things have help kept me sane and feel more and more normal. Am I simply using them? Am I building those relationships at least in part to fill a social void in my life - without a doubt, yes. Is that wrong? I don't know. I'd like to think that I am offering as much as I am taking.
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A question that I ask myself every day when I am dealing with things at work, in life, or in communications with W - How do I manage this so that it aligns with my own values? This completely stops me from being reactive and I listen to my inner voice and find the answer. Just asking myself that question allows me to respond in a way that I am comfortable with because it come from my value system.
This is absolutely great advice. I am trying to live up to that standard as much as I can. I have tried to apply it to my classes at school which are extremely stressful and hard not to be reactive in. I don't always succeed, but I am improving. In terms of relationships I value honesty, open communication and am trying to practice that. I can see that emotional stability, equilibrium as you put it, is important as well. I need to take care of my own emotional baggage and not rely on anyone else, and I need to see that in the other person as well. I feel like I am getting there, but I don't know how far along I need to be.
Obviously I will be making all decisions based on what I feel is right for me, but hearing the data and the perspectives from so many people here is invaluable.
Thanks to all for reaching out.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
I hear you loud and clear about using others to fill a void in our lives, and I agree to an extent. However, I do question how it is that different from going out and GALing by building new friendships and extending our social circles. Getting out and meeting people while climbing, deepening the friendships I have with the people I bike with - these things have help kept me sane and feel more and more normal. Am I simply using them? Am I building those relationships at least in part to fill a social void in my life - without a doubt, yes. Is that wrong? I don't know. I'd like to think that I am offering as much as I am taking.
That's a really good point and thanks for adding more nuance to this issue. I think in friendships the boundaries and rules are pretty clear. And when we rely on the or build upon them, I agree with you that there is a give and take to the matter. I don't think it's using a friend, unless you're just constantly negatively dumping on them and they feel they're not getting much out of the friendship for them. All these relationships require balancing and nurturing. You spend time with your friends and doing activities to heal and move forward, and even if it's to fill a void for the time being, you know that you can give back in that type of relationship at some point. There is absolutely something like using a friend for their support and unless there's some reciprocity, it's not going to last, or actually damage that friendship. We've all had friends who are takers and co-dependent on us and that feels terrible as we're not getting anything else out of that friendship for ourselves. It can also be toxic.
The romantic aspect is slightly different IMHO. Here the boundaries have shifted and that there is potential for more than just a friendship. And when you enter into a date, you enter with that possibility open. Now if you're not ready for that, then you're absolutely using up that other person's good faith and goodwill. I just don't want to be in a place to do that. I want to go into these things with good faith and hoping that other person also is doing so out of good faith.
And again, bring it down to your values. Mine are: being kind; being authentic; being assertive; having healthy boundaries; being patient and exercise empathy; giving and receiving respect; not being controlling.
If I was to engage in dating, it would have to hit some of my values. If it doesn't, I am not ready. So, bring it to the core about who you are and what you want and what you want to give to the world. If it doesn't align to that, then it's not working. For example, I believe that when I get out into the dating world, I am most likely going to want to have some sexual encounters rather than a relationship or companionship. I am going to be pretty transparent about that and so I know that I am operating through my value of authenticity and transparency.
Bring it all back to you and you'll know the answers.
Thanks for the advice, Maika, I have read it a few times and am still processing it. I think part of my desire to date is also born out of a lack of patience. I actually pulled back and didn't respond to any of the women who wrote me on the one site. I don't know that I will definitely not date in the near term but at the very least I want to take some time to reflect on the intersection of my desires and values.
On another note, I am remembering how nice it was to have the W out of town for a few weeks (not to mention the 2 months I spent out of town this summer.) Our communication in those times was somewhere between minimal and non-existent and I grew accustomed to that. Then, on Sunday I saw her with OM out in the street. And yesterday afternoon she reached out via email to ask to change the night she was going to come by to take the dog out (I agreed since I was going out both nights anyway). Then she got a confirmation sent to her phone of a vet appointment for this weekend and was worried that there was something wrong with the dog so she texted me, and I assured her that the dog was fine (it's just a checkup.) Finally I saw her as I was leaving the gym - I didn't even notice that she had come in. I was climbing for 2 hours so it was surprising that I didn't even notice her.
None of these interactions was anything out of the ordinary but it was more contact in 4 hours than I was used to having in several weeks. I much prefer not to see her or interact her with her. These moments give her space in my head that I don't otherwise allot to thinking about the sitch. Despite being exhausted from a long day I really enjoyed my session at the gym and ended up sleeping like a log so it didn't affect my day or my mood too much at all. It's more of a minor irritant or stressor, a little prick of a reminder that stings for a couple of minutes and then fades away.
I can't imagine what it would be like to have to see a WAW on a daily basis like so many people with in-house separations do. It also does make me think even harder about moving to a different city as soon as the school year is over. Not having to worry about running into her is a weight off my shoulders. I suppose I could also just work harder to completely detach to the point where I don't even care if I do run into her.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Davide, I fully understand about not wanting to see the WAS at all, oh boy, what I would give to just not have to see/text or have to do anything with him, but we have 2 children. I have thought about it too, if I were in your sitch, I would move somewhere far far away and start afresh, not because I would want to run away but because I wouldnt even waste a single minute of my life brooding over the past with triggers from the places that they were made. I recently watched the Under the Tuscan Sun, she wipes her slate clean and it pays off in such unexpected beautiful ways. I read Vapo's response on your thread multiple times, so much to absorb from it. 'Broken attracts broken' so true, both for us until we are out of this storm and in a way about the WASs too, no?
