Before I read the SSM book, I had a talk with my wife about her and my expectations for married sex. up to that point for the past 3 years we had sex maybe once every three months, with a long period, maybe 9 months of no sex at all due to her being pregnant with our twins. She and I agreed to have sex on either Friday night or Saturday morning every week unless it was "that time of the month" and in return I wouldn't approch her in a sexual way, or try to seduce her any other time of the week. That lasted two weeks then we missed two weeks (one was the wrong time of month). Then she went to every other week to once a month... to now it has only been once since 2004 started. I don't know how to get back to the agreement.
Just tell her you would like to get back on the schedule and it's her choice whether she does it or not. Give the opportunity to rise to the occasion. If it doesn't work, then become a PMer. There's a lot of buzz about Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch going around. It's having good results with everyone who can understand it.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote AD: "It's having good results with everyone who can understand it." And therein lies the problem... I have discovered one thing. If where one sits at the dinner table is an indication then mine is not a well differentiated family. In well differentiated families people just sit anywhere at the table. I tried moving people around by changing the positions of their plates - we each have a different color plate . The children made a comment about it but sat down in their new places but when W came in there was he!! to pay! Needless to say there was some musical chairs and we were back to normal again, each in their own seat with their own colored plate. SD - Still got a long way to go.
Quote: The children made a comment about it but sat down in their new places but when W came in there was he!! to pay!
So that just showed you (very graphically) what you probably knew already - that your W is highly fused. You probably are as well... we choose partners at the same level of differentiation, because otherwise the relationship tends to break up early, but you've probably been growing some recently, so you're probably marginally more differentiated at the moment. Just the fact that you would try this experiment shows this. The point he was making about places at the table is that some people need this level of formality to let them feel they know who they are. If daddy always has to sit at the head of the table, it may be because that's how he feels he's head of the household. In our house we also have "assigned seating". I sit where I do due to "executive priviledge" - because I like to have the window at my back so as not to have the sun in my face. W sits to my right, because that's where she's closest to the kitchen. The boys are to my left and DD20 is across from me. It's been this way since we moved in, but everyone chose their own seat, and having our own seat just makes it easier somehow. Dunno what that says about us... probably that we're pretty well fused ourselves.
I just realized last evening that I always have a hard time self-soothing around DD20 when she's agitated. I often get infected by her anxiety. I'll have to work on that...
I don't care where I sit Tim. It's a circular table but it seems important to W as do the colour of the plates and mugs. The trouble is this kind of ritual rubs off on me too. I don't really care but I do like to have the red plate and mug and don't like the green. I tried to use a green mug yesterday but couldn't bring myself to. SD
Another lost Friday but there always seems to be a good reason. This time was D16's Prom and three friends sleeping over. W told me on Thursday that she was worried about Friday because of the sleepover and I (calmly) suggested we skip it so at least I was prepared. We did talk a while though about nothing in particular but at going to sleep time I said my "ILY" and she actually said it back (very rare) but then added "sometimes". I went from surprised elation to crushed defeat in less than a second but I kept my self together. I did not sleep much though and this morning (Saturday) I was feeling quite depressed. W went shopping and I pottered in the garden. That did not work so I read a little PM and did some hard thinking. All of a sudden it came to me! She loves me "sometimes" but I don't love HER at all! What I love is the dream of what our love promised to be when we were first together and I have never broken out of that dream. Realising this is a weight off my mind but I'm not sure what to do now. SD
You should tell her that it was a rotten thing to say. Loving her is not loving a dream and it is not something you did wrong. Your feelings are just hurt.
All the best. -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I would be careful not to overthink this one. A similar revelation I had recently was that sometimes I say "I love you" to my H when I'm really thinking "Right now I feel like I hate you but I'm going to say that "I love you" in the hope that you will say "I love you" back and then I won't have to hate you anymore." VERY, VERY emotionally fused thing to do that I will not be doing in the future.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Dave, I'm not sure how far you are with PM, but one thing I think is that your W is playing you. She seems to hold all the cards, and she has the ability to lead you around by the nose. I agree with NOPkins, that was a horrible thing for her to say, and you need to call her on it. You also need to bring stuff out in the open where they can be seen in the cold light of day, such as all the love-hate stuff you two do to each other. There really is quite a lot of marital sadism going on at your house. If the two of you can call it what it is, and discuss it together, you at least stand a chance of ending it, or at least controlling it. You need to have the ability to "call her on it" when she does stuff like that, just as you should expect HER to "call YOU on it" when you do things to her. But these mind-games the two of you play with each other will need to stop at some point.
Not to mention the mind-games YOU play on yourself. You really need to get real with yourself soon. You need to look inside yourself and examine what it is that really makes you tick, and exactly WHO you ARE, and get settled with that, then present that self to your W. At that point, you'll have some sand to draw a line in.
Thanks everyone, This morning (Sunday) while we were drinking our tea in bed she was beating me up about my off day (Saturday) so I explained that it was because she said she loved me (a rare event) but then felt she had to qualify it with "sometimes" and that had caused me to spend the whole day speculating what she meant. After all you either love someone or you don't. Late in the afternoon I cheered myself up by deciding that what she meant was that she loves me and DESIRES me sometimes. "No" she said "I didn't word it very well. What I actually meant was that I love you, but you annoy me sometimes". The sometimes in question this time was because when I collected D16 and her friends from their Prom I went inside the building to find her then horror (to D16) I actually spoke to the head mistress. This apparently was totally out of order and definitely the most embarassing thing I have ever done! I suppose so but if I hadn't gone in to find her she would have been the last girl out of the building and I would have been waiting in the car for ages. I mentioned to W that I had been reading about hugging and that it has great significance in a relationship. She pressed me to explain so I mentioned the "jolt" when one disengages from the hug and that the person who jolts is the less needy one in the relationship. I could tell that it struck a chord with her by the wry smile on her face (she always jolts after 1 mississippi) so I suggested she read the chapter in PM. She may or may not read it - that's her choice, right? I had a great male bonding morning - I went down to the model flying field and met a few guys I hadn't seen for ages. Flew my model plane and talked about planes and motorbikes for a couple of hours and came home totally refreshed. Now that the weather is nice I will go every weekend. This afternoon I looked at W and decided that it is not the dream I love it is HER - she is gorgeous and I adore her (which is the problem I guess - I'm far too fused). I have come to the conclusion that this Friday "Just do it" is a bit of a flop because it's so easy for her to find plausible excuses and I'm still feeling dreadfully rejected. I think I might suggest that we "Just do it" on Tuesdays as well as Fridays then a "No" doesn't mean a two week gap. I have nothing to lose by asking - what do you think guys? Should I go for it? SD
. The children made a comment about it but sat down in their new places but when W came in there was he!! to pay! Needless to say there was some musical chairs and we were back to normal again, each in their own seat with their own colored plate.