Yesterday I was re-reading SSM and (since we hadn't discussed it in a couple of weeks) took the initiative to ask H if we could have a talk. I'll spare the details, but it quickly turned into the usual argument of I am obsessed with sex and he thinks he is making substantial progress. We both felt bad that it degenerated into a fight, and quickly made up and were lovey with each other for the rest of the day.
For dinner, we took the kids for a picnic. At the playground were these two young, attractive lesbian women - holding hands, kissing, etc. Luckily our boys were far away at the sandbox and didn't notice the action, but H did. Oh, did I mention one of the women was wearing one of the shortest skirts I've ever seen this side of a Christina Aguilera video? And, as she decided to go on the swings (!), H could not help but stare. And stare he did. He even took the baby up to the baby swing so he could get a closer look. It was SO obvious, but not really bothersome to me - he is, after all, a red-blooded heterosexual male. Heck, *I* had trouble not staring!
This is when things got a little strange. H had a 7 p.m. business meeting (me and kids were going to my friend's house to play while he was there) and it was about 6 p.m. but he suddenly insisted he needed to go NOW because he had some prep work to do at home first. I thought nothing of it. We packed the car, he dropped us at friend's house, he left. We met up again at home around 9:30 p.m. H seemed a tiny bit distant, but nothing major. He wanted to watch the news but I was tired so went up to bed. On the way I stopped at the computer, posted here, and when I went to shut it down Windows gave me the "there is somebody else logged in - are you sure you want to shut down?" error message. We share the same username in Windows XP but he does have his own username which, in the past, he used for his porn exploits. I didn't think about this until later, though. I went to bed and H came up later, kissed me goodnight, and we snoozed away.
About 1 a.m. the baby woke up. I fed her and put her back to bed. But I couldn't get back to sleep. My mind was racing. I started putting two and two together. The girl with the short-ass skirt. Racing to get out of the park early for "prep work" at home. His never-used XP account logged in. (And no, he does not use the computer for his business so it wasn't part of the "prep" work.) Oh yes, my mind was a-racing.
Fast forward to 2:30 a.m. I was still awake, practically having an anxiety attack about the whole "can we EVER get through this?!" thing. Our bedroom window was open a bit and outside I heard some drunk a-hole telling his friend he had to pee, followed by the sound of him peeing in my yard. I got up and yelled at him, which woke up H. The stress of the whole situation caused me to start blubbering like an idiot, and when he asked what was the matter I told him - the girl at the park, the computer, blah blah blah.
Again sparing the boring details, it actually turned out to be one of the most rational, coherent discussions we have ever had about our sex life. We talked for 2 hours in the middle of the night. Wild! He talked about the book, and his fear of me having an affair, and I talked about how me feeling loved means I need to feel desired, and we REALLY connected. It was nice. Funny timing, but nice. Around 4 a.m., we drifted off to sleep in each others arms. I felt closer to him than ever, and told him so.
(Thanks for bearing with me here. This is almost over.)
Cut to this morning. Baby woke up at 7 so I got her up and let H sleep. At 9 I put baby down for a nap and came in to cuddle with H. He woke up feeling very lovey, and we ML. It was nice, not fireworks but nice. No O for either of us - odd for him, but I was more in it for the lovey aspect and didn't really feel like putting the work into O. Usually if he has trouble finishing during intercourse, I will help him with a BJ or HJ or whatever. But he said he didn't want this, and asked if I'd go make him a smoothie. I said I was too tired from no sleep, but he INSISTED and actually (playfully) pushed me out of bed to go make one. So off I went.
10 minutes later, I returned to deliver his smoothie and the bedroom door was closed and locked. This could only mean one thing - duh. Well, I really went nuts. I almost couldn't breathe 'cuz of the lump in my throat. I went down into the basement to "do laundry" just to get away from the situation and the kids. As the minutes passed my heart was racing and I got more and more anxious. H finally came to find me and asked what was wrong. That's when I blew. I really blew, too. I'm sure the neighbors heard me yelling at him about betrayal, how would he feel if the tables were turned, etc. I didn't mean to blow quite that badly, but I did. I did keep it to how I felt rather than accusing him of doing something heinous - but really I felt/feel really despondent about the whole thing.
I feel like he was really sneaky. And why would he ML with me and then scoot me off like that? I felt so used and degraded. He insists this is nonsense, that I GAVE him permission to start using porn again, now I am going back on my word. I said it wasn't about the porn, it was about the timing, and why couldn't he have just talked to me about it during ML instead of rushing me off. He finally got so frustrated he said - and he's NEVER said this before - he thought it was about time we just gave up on this whole thing. Then a few minutes later he came back and apologized for saying that. He took the boys and left, said they'd be back in a few hours.
If anyone has made it this far in my novel, I really appreciate it. I don't know what I should do. I'm dreading him coming home. I feel like absolute crap - not only about what happened, but about my response. Mostly I just feel numb. I feel like I never want to even THINK about having sex with him again.
{{{{{hh}}}}} What can you say about this? I, frankly, don't get it. The concept of not having an O while ML is simply foreign to me. And it appears as if he abstained from the O so that he could go surf porn? I can't figure that one out. Real thing here, and pix or movies over here. I know where I'd go.
However, it sounds like you might be pulling some control stuff on him. I say this because you "gave him permission" to use porn again, and when he does, you go ballistic. Kind of like Dave buying the big TV for his wife, and then getting pissed because all she wants to do is watch it. You enable, then punish. You might want to think about that. His remark about giving up was a cry of desparation...he doesn't know what to do to please you. So he tries to please himself and gets slapped. I can see why you're both frustrated. I would be too.
Anyone have any other insights? Corri? Bueller?
Hairdog, who learned that it wasn't a real Ferrari in the movie!
To me, it feels like you gave him permission to use porn only because you couldn't figure out anything else to do, then found that it doesn't sit well with you at all. I'd share that with him, if I were you. This isn't a legal contract, you have consulted your feelings and found that this is a really big deal for you, and you need him to understand that.
But also, going from ML to being locked out of the bedroom...yucko. That would drive me nuts. You just wanted to be close, and there you were locked out. Sounds like you overreacted, but you have a very valid complaint.
This is the way I see it. You gave him permission to use porn, you DID NOT give him permission to use you though. Porn can be used without him dismissing your feelings and I have to tell you this from my point of view. The guy would have to be a Neanderthal if he didn't know that making love to you up to a certain point and then finishing the job with porn is a HUGE dismissal of you as a partner and a human being.
He needs to separate the two things...his relationship with you and his porn, they are not one in the same. I can understand your reaction. I can't think of anything more gut renching to realize that you were good enough for the start but not for the finish.
If he is unable to orgasm with you then he needs to step up to the plate and communicate this with you so the problem can get worked out. What he is doing is damned hateful in my opinion. He has problems, is refusing to face it and you are taking on his problems with all this anxiety you are feeling. The sooner you realize this the sooner you will get a handle on all the negative self-talk you are doing. Cathy
Quote: He finally got so frustrated he said - and he's NEVER said this before - he thought it was about time we just gave up on this whole thing. Then a few minutes later he came back and apologized for saying that.
Just gave up on what? Your marriage? It sounds like HE has already "given up" on making it better. Make it clear to him that YOU are not yet ready to give up on YOURSELF, and that you have TOO MUCH self-respect to put up with that kind of behavior. Not the using porn part, but, as you say, the timing of it, and the fact that he refuses to share it with you. It looks to me like he has some real intimacy fears there... you and he need to explore them, and he has to confront himself on the subject of what is he so afraid of. Why does he need this guilty little-boy stuff? THAT's where the interesting part lies, I think...
You come across as a lovable, desirable, sexy woman who would probably be a dream come true for many men. Have you ever considered that your husband might have a porn addiction? Here's a link to a news story about cyberporn addiction:
You are my sister. Your posted experience was something I could so easily imagine happening in my own relationship I almost started crying when I read it.
Though this might be a case of the blind leading the blind, I feel that I've gained a lot of insight since reading"SSR" and joining this board. It's a lot easier to analyse a situation when you are not part of it.
First, let me say that your husband's behavior was insensitive, immature and I would be as upset as you are if it happened to me. But since your husband isn't available for me to yell at,let me tell you what I think you (and me in my relationship) could do to improve the situation.
I have at least temporarily resolved the porn issue with my husband, but if it comes up again this is how I will deal with it. If we are having a satisfactory sex life, I will simply ignore it.By throwing a fit about it, I am giving it more importance than it merits and also turning it into "forbidden fruit" and casting myself in the role of "Mommy". If I am unhappy with the current sex situation, I will calmly suggest that if he were not emptying his gonads in such a manner,he might have more drive to keep me satisfied. I will make it clear to him that I am an adult woman and if he wants to have the sex life of a 13 year old boy, I may have to look elsewhere for my satisfaction. I may even go so far as to make fun of his "hobby"- "Hubby and Miss April sitting in a tree..."
One trick I've used in the past to gain some space for myself when dealing with a tough time in my marriage is to temporarily lower my expectations. I tell myself that I am a single mom and my husband is simply a boarder I've taken in to help with the mortgage.Also, when I find myself thinking too much about what he might be thinking or feeling, I just tell myself that the only thing going on in his head is the Flintstone's theme song playing over and over again.
I think it can be immensely helpful to convince yourself that you are not trapped in this relationship. You love your husband and you are going to do all that you can to preserve your marriage, but in the end as we all learned in preschool "the most important person in the world to you is you".
Do what you can to boost your own self-esteem.Pretend like you have a high school reunion coming up in a month and get yourself ready for it. Tell your husband that you are not going to initiate sex for a while because you find the rejection too painful and you know he doesn't want to fight about it anymore. Make it clear that you still want to have sex but are making the choice not to initiate.This is what I've been doing and it's working. My husband initiated sex twice this week!
Once I feel more confident and less likely to overreact to rejection, I intend to start initiating again when I'm in the mood. If I feel that the rejection is unreasonable, I plan on making clear that I am in a "party" mood and will do something like go out dancing with my single, hard-rock lifestyle sister and let him sit home and stew in his own rejectful juices.
Be strong.
NMB
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Hi everyone and thanks for your great responses. It really helped me to vent here a little and get some ideas from your replies before H got home. I was still really mad at him when he got home, but I was able to contain it until I could get the kids busy playing outside and then sit down with him. The first thing he did when I sat down with him is turn off the TV - which H rarely does, even in serious situations, so I knew he was ready to talk, too.
The first thing I told him was that I was sorry for how I had reacted, and for yelling and screaming and all that. Then I told him about the sheer rejection I felt, on so many levels, when I found that door locked. I told him that knowing he was looking at porn again was something I had expected after our conversation a few weeks ago (the one where, out of respect for his sexual being/needs, I had given him the green light to use porn again as long as it didn't interfere with any progress we were making in our SSM efforts); however, being confronted head on with it - especially we had just ML - was a huge blow to me as it brought up a lot of the bad feelings I still had after dealing with his porn habits for years.
Let's see...what else? I really tried to just keep it on "me" and how I had felt and not sound like I was accusing (even though I wanted to call him a dirty rotten slimy scumbag and tell him I wish I'd never married him!) - he was quiet and non-defensive through all this, which is amazing progress for him.
Then, he got to talk. He told me it was the first time he had used porn since The Conversation a few weeks ago - that surprised me. I really thought he had used it several times, and I'm still a little doubtful he is telling the truth about that (which is another "me" issue I guess, a result of all his sneaking around before). He said he felt that The Conversation, and me green-lighting porn, had been a huge gift from me to him and he had no intention of screwing it up again. He said he could see how that might make me feel rejected, and he apologized for that. He also made reference to not realizing what the "rules" were - as if I had "rules" I should have established during The Conversation. I told him I didn't think "rules" were needed, but I guess we will get back to that idea at some point. (Heck, I don't want to be a rule-maker for heaven's sake! I deal with that enough with the kids.)
All that being said...I was still feeling really sh*tty about the morning's experience. And I felt that he wasn't really understanding just HOW bad his timing was. He said he had trouble achieving O during our time together that morning (like I said, occasionally this happens to H - rarely, but maybe 1 out of every 20 times we ML), and since we so rarely ML anymore he was getting kinda sensitive "down there" and didn't want to have to spend another 20 minutes (as he put it) with me giving him a HJ or BJ or whatever. He just wanted to get it over with. In a way, I could understand the physical part of it - I have been there myself, though in those cases I just let the O go instead of rushing him off and getting out my vibrator or something!
So I asked him if he wanted to know what he could have done differently if he was having this physical issue; or if the situation ever comes up again. He said yes, and I told him maybe he could have just shared his need with me right there, maybe we could have looked at porn together, or if he truly needed to be alone just tell me. I told him my promise was to respect that, and that yes it might make me feel weird but I would not lash out in anger again.
I guess we both gave a little to the situation. I really don't feel he was "using" me to get himself worked up and then head for the porn. I feel he found himself in a difficult situation physically, and took what he thought was the easiest way out. (Heck, if it had taken me only another minute to make that smoothie I would have never known about the porn.) He now sees the errors of his ways, and I see the errors of my ways.
All in all, as crappy as I still feel about the whole thing, we have made significant progress since we were able to talk about it and "kiss and make up" afterwards. My H, as smart as he is, can be a real dork of an idiot sometimes - especially when it comes to sex. One thing I do know, is I don't think this will be happening again!
Oh, and PM arrived today in the mail so I am committing to reading that this week.
Thanks for sharing this with us. I have to admit, I get caught up in everyone's situation, and I really want to hear how things work out. It sounds like you're basically on track...
HH...wow...sounds like it's been an up and down (no pun intended) few days. You've always gone back to the porn issue so it's pretty clear that it bothers you A LOT more than you express to H.
It's good to see that he appreciated you giving that "gift" to him...but the guy obviously has bad timing. I keep thinking that he's not really LD...just LD under the current situation between you two.
The swing incident and some other things you've mentioned all point to this. I honestly think your H doesn't quite know how to express himself sexually...so he always ends up just doing things solo. That explains the eye candy stuff and the porn.
A good place to start might be working on ways to talk about how he can express himself more. Bring up the woman on the swing...it was pretty clear he was turned on...so talk about what was going through his mind. How could he act out those thoughts with you?
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step." – Lao Tzu
