Hi Maika, just caught up on your updates. Put all the effort and energy into making the new apartment a paradise for the kids. Let them help you decorate it the way they would want to and make it their own. Mediation is an inexpensive way to D. Let me ask you this though, only because I know you have attained mental clarity in this whole process. You never wanted the D, she moved out and broke the home so why do you want to proceed now? Is it because you are ready to move on with another partner? Dating while still married is against what I believe in, and it is very valid to want a partner after such a long time especially if your W is with someone else. Other than that are you tired of the uncertainty and the limbo? Do you feel legally ending it will give everyone the closure they deserve? Why not leave her to proceed with this?
About the good friend - got it! Well, then that's really a non-issue. Yes, after a while and with enough observation, a new approach has to be taken for sure. With the specifics of our sitch's, I agree that it has to be something that centers around the kids. Kids are happy and it gives you enough buffer to not have to constantly engage with the other person and have to force any conversations or just be awkward. You can spend time doing stuff with the kids and other people around. Also approach it with the mindset that this is truly for the kids and that you're walking out after the event like nothing has changed. That's why I said it has to feel natural and something you're comfortable doing. Whatever happens, it doesn't matter because you're still waking up the next day living your new life.
Yeh, if there is an OM in the picture, then it's just out of the question really. You're looking foolish and she loses more respect for you. I also strongly believe that if the LBS is going to dip their toes outside, then they have to do it with equal reciprocation with the other person making the first move. So, if she invites you to something with the kids, then you can do the same at a later date. Keep it on the same level as her. This way it's not pursuit, and you're also not walking into a potentially awkward situation. But she has to make the first move, otherwise it's still just a lower degree of pursuit.
After mulling all of this over, and having the same types of questions and thoughts as you are having, I decided that I'll reciprocate and see. She had offered for me to join for something with the kids but I couldn't go. In return, I offered the same and we'll see. I don't know why she made the invite. I could spend time thinking about various possibilities, but unless I ask her point blank, I won't know. And I am not asking her - it simply doesn't matter at this point. All that matters is if it is something that I could engage in without expectations and be myself - which I can.
Arshi:
Thanks for the new apartment wishes! Yes, I am looking forward to making it a great home for the kids. They are excited so that helps.
You are right that I didn't want the D. My changed stance on it is due to a few different reasons: 1) I know what I will need from her to rebuild the marriage - they are not unreasonable things, but knowing her well, I have very high doubts that she would put the work in herself and the marriage; 2) I don't see any sign that she wants to even have a discussion on a potential reconciliation, let alone what that process would entail; 3) If for some miraculous reason (and I truly hope she gets help), she does decide to seek professional help to address her issues, the timeline for that is very long from the point she starts therapy; 4) But, even before the starting therapy, the timeline for her to come to that decision is also very long as she has high anxiety issues - I haven't seen a change in that from her physical manifestations of that anxiety; 5) Let's say all this happens and we get into MC - I have high doubts that I will be able to get past her EA and some casual dating, and I am sure more stuff that I am not privy to right now. Due to traumatic events in my life, I have a very hard time letting someone in, and if they abandon or betray me, I almost always shut the door on them outside of being civil and polite; 6) I am not in limbo and I am moving forward with my life, but I am at a place now where I am actually excited to meet new women and find love - this means that I don't have the patience to wait for extended number of years on some highly improbable variables coming true; 7) I also want someone who is deserving of me and vice versa and I don't want a half-a$$ partnership anymore - and unless W is all in and ready to go through struggles personally and with me, that's what I would end up with which is unacceptable to me now; 8) I want to bring a conclusion to this set of events and if that means that I have to take the lead on it, then I will - to ensure that my rights as a parent are protected and that I can have full closure on the marriage and relationship. I know the D is just symbolic at this point, but getting it done would provide an ending, whether or not it's something I wanted.
It's been past 12 months since the separation and she could've initiated the D proceedings over the last 2 months and she hasn't. With her anxiety issues, I am not sure if she can take the final step. I am sure guilt is probably playing into all of this as well. So, I will have to do it unless she brings it up in the next few months.
I am with you on dating while still legally married - I can't do it. That's why I haven't dated. I also didn't feel like it would be a constructive or positive thing for my growth and healing. I still have things I am working on for myself and I want to get to a emotionally stable place before I can dip my toes out in the dating world. I am quite content with myself and I don't feel lonely or wanting attention from someone else to make me feel good.
This was a long winded response, but if I missed something, let me know and I'll try and answer that for you.
Nef - back at you as well! Hope you're having a great weekend as well. Big hugs!
Slater - forgot to add: don't worry about hijacking the thread. You didn't actually do that, and I am using my threads now to journal and just keep some convo going when things happen. Clearly at the end game stage now and so it's a free for all in my threads really.
I reciprocated an invite to her and she tried to make it but had some work commitments that she couldn't get around. It at least sounded like she wanted to join and tried, but didn't work out. All good. Kids and I had a great time nonetheless. So, that makes us even. Let's see what happens. Everything is back in her court.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Popping in to just remind the newbies here to exercise 'patience' to the utmost - for your own recovery and how your WS/WAS is responding and acting towards you.
Had a few brief interactions with W lately and she is still full to the brim with her anger and judgment. I thought it had possibly subsided, but apparently it hasn't. At least I am in a good place where it just washed over me and didn't faze me much. At least good intel to see that she hasn't worked through her own $hit or even really begun to take responsibility and accountability of her actions. I have been as dark/NC as possible with kids and it still hasn't really cracked it for her - it has for me for sure, but it hasn't affected her anger and judgment towards me.
So newbies - this truly is a marathon. Stay focused on your growth and what you can control - which is only YOU!
Thanks for the update, and I am glad to hear that you can receive that resentment with such equanimity. That is a sure sign of progress. Congrats. That is an inspiration for a lot of us. Patience and self-compassion are key skills to develop for all of us LBSs.
In terms of patience I know that you had talked about getting to a place where you feel confident in a decision to initiate D. Does her continued lack of growth make that decision any easier? As a newbie I struggle to see how it wouldn't be healthier for a LBS to move on completely and try to find a fulfilling life elsewhere without that toxicity. I fully acknowledge that it might just be my own lack of perspective showing through. It just seems like you have made so much progress on yourself while she is stagnating. Is the benefit of "standing" a question of morality - valuing the institution of marriage or the commitment you made so much?
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Thanks Davide! Yeah, I think that over time, as you better understand your emotional responses to a variety of things, you can figure out how to manage that and come out better. I remember reading here on someone's thread that really stuck with me, and it went something like this - let your values drive your reactions; don't let other people's actions determine your reactions.
That has helped me a lot.
About getting to deciding to initiate D - when I say 'patience' for that decision, it is not to see if the other person has made changes and has turned around. I mean that you've come to a place of equilibrium and stability for yourself that D is going to be a fact in your life, not something that determines who you are and your future. And that is the place of strength that action needs to come from. If it's from desperation or to get a reaction, it will most certainly backfire.
Yes, her continued lack of growth does make the decision easier. She gets unattractive to me every time I really interact with her. I don't want to be with someone who hasn't figured their $hit out. It won't ALL be figured out, but there has to be something to show for and a dedication to stay on that journey.
About the toxicity, the D isn't going to get you there. Going NC/dark will do almost about the same thing for toxicity. If you feel like the D is needed for mental and emotional closure, my hunch is that you will probably feel good that it's done with for a little bit of time. But then everything will creep back in - your insecurities, your depression, your loneliness etc. Unless you have actively worked on those things, the D won't solve what your true problems are. Just like the separation, the D is a distraction and running away from problems. If you want do D so that you can feel ethical in dating, then that's cool - I cosign that. But D won't help you with your problems.
There is a really fab thread on 'standing' somewhere here. I have bookmarked it on a different computer. I will try to find it and post it for anyone to read. I do think that 'standing' is such a personal decision, just like D. I can't advise anyone here to stand or go get a D. I don't know where you're truly at and only you can make that determination.
I believe I have detailed in this thread somewhere why I will be moving forward with the D in the next few months. And it's not because I gave up patience or stopped standing. I just took a long term view of the timeline if potentially things could turn around. And that timeline is very long and filled with too many variables. And there is not a single indication that she is interested in that. I also want to find love and have a partnership in the future, and I want to go out and explore the dating world. I won't do that until I have the D done because it will represent me truly coming out of the other side of the tunnel as a better person and having reached my short-term personal milestones in life.
I don't think you're showing lack of perspective. I think this is complex and everyone has to make their own determination. D or no D, the most consistent messaging I have heard from old-timers who pop by once in a while to share an update is this - they all wished that they had moved forward with their lives much earlier than they did and focused on themselves and their healing with more vigor; and the version of them now is far stronger and better than before.
My biggest take away from my experience is this - focus on becoming emotionally fit and take ownership and accountability and engage the struggle on a daily basis. There is no other way to come out on the other side without the struggle and pain. You can have the most wonderful family and community to support you, but at the end of the day, they cannot make you do anything. You have to do it. No savior is coming. The quicker people can get that and train their mindset, their life will change for the better without a doubt.
