DB / Detach, WAW... piecing

[Loves77]

Sounds like September will be a revealing month for you. I have always said that I think her anxiety is a bullcrap excuse, and coming from me that says a lot bc I have anxiety to I think we all do. It's a normal human function. I think now people use it as an excuse to not have to actually process anything.

Anyhow... sounds like you have a good grip on it. And if you think it over that is really only for you to say. Let's be honest, this is an advice and support forum and we only see one side.

Good luck in whatever happens.

[mtb1981]

Did... I've been gone for awhile, but it seems like you're starting to see things a lot more clearly than last time I checked in on you. She's quite the manipulator and I think you are starting to realize it. Stay strong, keep up the good work, and keep your guard up. Don't fall for her tricks. She's got a bag full, and they're all bout to come out. Be ready...

[DavidUK]

Had a great few days with D4. I feel great when I have her. Thats the hardest part about all this. The only way to have her in my life full time is to get back with W...

Yep, I wonder if some WAS don't realise that D means both parents seeing a lot less of the kids, or perhaps some just don't care that the kids can end-up with 2 part-time parents rather than 2 full-time parents.

[Did]

W says she has been feeling things for me... of course as I pull away and am getting more detached. Manipulation? Most likely... I feel like it is so ingrained in her from her mom she doesnt even realize shes doing it. But this is who she is.

Im ready to accept D4 split custody in exchange for my freedom and future happiness... [censored] but it is what it is. I have continued to see new woman and we continue to hit it off. Would I give it up for W? Maybe (torn on this because I feel that new woman and I could honestly have a better relationship unless W radically changes but we dont have a family...) but only if W shows SIGNIFICANT action. It would crush new woman... heavy sigh... anyway..

Im going to take some notes from previous posts on here and have specific points for when W and I talk this week. If she wants to have a chance with me she will need to show actions, commitment and consistency- none of which I believe she will be able to do. More and more I see her as a sexy woman who has reverted to a teenager.

Actions like: Telling me how she feels and her actions consistently lining up: if you feel it show it / do it- ask me to spend time, have conversations- call reach out etc, positive emotions and intimacy - looking into eyes, touch, kiss whatever.

IC for her anxiety. If she wants to be with me she needs to work on it and this is probably going to be the deal breaker... funny how the script flips when you as the LBS is ready to move on and she sees the lighthouse fading away.

Prioritize our relationship- making plans, schedule to fit things in for us to do. She prioritizes seeing her two girlfriends and that affects D4 schedule... D4 schedule on my side is dictated by work.

Show acts of love / kindness.... writing this Im thinking no shot but anyway here it is...

Text convo today:

Me- Can we talk one day next week.
W- Yea anything specific?

Me- Yea our relationship or lack there of and moving forward.
W- Ok. Gut punch (This is how I felt 6-8 months ago when she was saying things- role reversal?)
W- Like how we talekd last week? Or like you have a specific goal with this convo and youre feeling negative
W- High anxiety right now if you could answer. Trying to stop my mind from controlling me but easier said than done.

Me- Yea I got those from you for a long time. I agreed to see how it goes for 3 months. Its been 3 months. We havent spent any time together. You dont seem to like being around me unless you need help or support. You dont seem to want to be close or even care. Its like pulling teeth for you to say anything good.

You want to see your friends but Im not in the equation as building our relationship let alone lover or husband. You dont seem tocare about we/us. I wonder what your motivation is in saing you want to get to know me then not doing it. Just feels like a game and constant subconcious manipulation.

Its nothing to text about and deserves in person convo where we can see and feel. Id love to love you but youre not even close to letting me.

W- Seem seem seem. Your perception of me and my feelings is not accurate. I get nothing at all from manipulation (ha except $2500 / mo right? I guess she assumes she gets this with D anyway)

I dont easily share and I know how it feels when someone doesnt share and you have to assume its bc theres nothing there.

So its not your failt

Me- I promise not to judge and take you at your word. I hope you can say what you trule feel when we talk. Otherwise how would I know.

W- I have been thinking about you more recently. In ways I havent for a long time. (truth / manipulation - probably some of both)

But then Im crying as I type bc its a very heavy feeling.

Me- You say stuff like that and have said I dont know for so long. You used to ask if I loved you all the time inthe relationship so I understand what you mean. You have compared your support to help me build businesses etc when we were together to support now that we arent. Its so incomparable.

Im sorry youre crying. If you feel things for me itd be nice to know and beneficial for you to share with me.

W- I dont know if its beneficial for me. I get so worried that youll be mean to be. (teenage child...)
Or Ill say something that makes you mad.

Me- I just feel like were so far apart now. To me it feels like you dont want to see me or do anything together so I proceed accordingly.

Worrying is your anxiety.

W- I understand how it makes you feel.
I know.

Me- Lets talk soon.

More texts about schedule etc I have meetings most days this week so we are planning to talk Tues night after D4 gets to bed... Im going to show up looking good with a bottle of wine and be pleasant / enjoy myself- Im good either way / try to have an open mind and be present give her a chance. I expect her to cry and things to deteriorate but maybe shell surprise me.

[Did]

Met W at pool with D4 today. I was going to meet her to give her D4 pool stuff... She invited me to come to the pool... one of first times asking me to do something together... I pushed for more and pursued like an idiot. Impatience kills me. Im tired of making the same mistakes. There are so many red flags with W I may admit we're toxic for each other and just move on. I'm so torn here.

Ideally wife would agree to try and we'd date and see if it works or not. I want to have this real conversation with her face to face- I feel she doesnt care about me and hasnt since separating. To me she seems selfish, entitled, anxious, etc. Red flags...

She wants to take it slow because she says she has been through so much, talk on the phone and build a friendship. Maybe if we build this foundation I will see her differently. In previous post: W said- Seem seem seem. Your perception of me and my feelings is not accurate. Maybe my perception is way off. Our biggest issue has been lack of communication and connection on a mental level. Assumptions kill our communication. The physical was always there.

D4 starts school tomorrow. I think Im going to make the 30 min drive just to walk her to the classroom. W has her.

Thanks all.. really at a crossroads here.

[Did]

Talked on the phone. Spur of the moment conversation instead of texting. She said she doesnt think us being married matters because she doesnt want anything serious in a relationship. Said dating me is serious and shes not ready for that. I said then we shouldnt be married. She said something about if she gives anything or has fun with me she gets overwhelmed by how hard I come after her... this is a repetitive mistake on me.

W and I both mentioned being toxic for each other. I think were only toxic if we are playing this weird as* game of being married but not. I believe if we are committed to each other we could grow together but we both have to want that.

Agreed to write points down and talk again tomorrow night.... still want to reconcile. Want her to want it as much as I do but she doesnt seem to care. She mentioned her parents being married for 5 years before they actually got divorced... I said that doesnt make it right.

What a mess.

[ovrrnbw]

Did,

Why the long text convo? Why the R talk? I can't tell you what to do, but you turned your request for a face to face talk into giving it all to her through text bc you couldn't hold firm and let her know that you'd tell her in person. She pressured you into getting her way.

Where are you with yourself? You're dating now, but have you made the progress required for you to have a healthy relationship? Do you think the woman who would date a married man is healthy enough for a R with you?

You don't have to respone to me, but think about these things.

[Did]

We go to lunch together with D4 today and talked in person this afternoon after dropping her at first day of school. I’m really torn on what to do. Back away, go for it... divorce. I want the R but she seems far from healthy. I was ready to divorce a few days ago but when she pulls me back it’s like the rubber band snaps me back. So no I’m not detached.

With new woman I feel like we could have long term lasting love as companionship that grows over time. But the passion isn’t there for me. I think it is for her. I’ve told her I’m not sure I’m ready for something so serious. And she seems so sure and I’m not. Maybe I should just stop seeing her. Already been some tears shed on her end last night when I told her that.

W has said she wants to get to know each other and see how it goes. I have a friend who said the same thing w his wife after separating and they got back together and have been been for years.

Yes she pressures to get her way. She is all over the place. She says she’s physically attracted thinks so highly of me respects me but may not be ready to date. Says maybe we should divorce because she thinks it’s a control issue because we’re still married. I said if we divorce I’m probably not going to want to talk much at all. Or date. She says what’s that mean are you going to be mean to me. She’s so scared of me being mean... At one point she said she’s not ready to commit to dating one person but then she said you know my values and morals I’ve never dated more than one person at a time. Maybe she’s not ready to date. All her words.

I shouldn’t be married to this person at this point, right? I guess I should just pull back away unless she commits to wanting more. She did say me not talking to her for the last months gave her time to think. What I want is to date and have fun together.

We’re supposed to talk on the phone tonight.

I see IC / MCtomorrow. Part of me wants to tell her or invite her but I guess that’s the wrong move.

I’m really tired of this but I guess overall ther has been some progress. It seems like our relationship is like a fractured plate glued together. Is there a way to get it back stronger?

Advice appreciated.

[SteveLW]

I still think she is playing you. Wanting that support past September. As I told you last week, stop the support, you've met your commitment. That will test just how into "wanting to get to know each other" she really is.

[Did]

She talks about her deserving the support and me saying she doesnt being a trigger. That and me saying that it was her choice to leave and separate. She says she had to leave because she felt like she was going to die... Realistically I think I should just move forward with the divorce.

If I stop paying the support Im sure we will divorce and the support will be part of the divorce settlement. Id think divorcing and going no contact would be the option with a 90 day cool down period. I havent paid her the 3rd month of support yet. I had my checkbook with me today but didnt pay it yet.

Steve- You dont think a woman who was married and stopped working to raise a child then gets divorced should get support... because the legal system does. I guess you're meaning that we aren't divorced and I don't have to pay support. She could also get approximately 20k additional money based on an investment property and IRA I have if she pushed things legally. If I were to stop the support and not divorce I dont know what the hell Id say- I agreed to pay 3 months of support so we could spend time together and get to know eachother, we haven't.

If you want to divorce now do it. I just dont see the positive outcome. I dont think she will want to get to know each other... she will feel scared and helpless with no money and no income. She will be spiteful and angry and feel like Im trying to control her with money.

She agreed we should get divorced today. We were supposed to talk tonight she said shes tapped out. She asked me to talk tomorrow night but I have plans. I told her I want to finish the conversation in the next couple days.

W says the financial stability I offer as well as D4 having both parents should have nothing to do with if we are together. It should be based on us and our feelings. I disagree and basically have to agree to disagree here.

D4 had first day of school today seemed to love it. But after she was saying where's dad I miss dad etc... W tells me this I respond she always will. She just doesnt seem to get it - the family and having two full time parents. She never had it herself.