Dave, I'm really looking forward to lauqhing at myself for thinking that I have a clue but my book has not arrived yet. The dlfference in you and Tim is amasing. All the frustration and talk of D etc. has gone. I hope it is a lasting change (for myself too when I finally get the package from Amazon. SD
Quote: I wanted to ask some follow up questions but he told me he wasn't in the mood for the discussion because he was watching a program about genocide and the topics didn't exactly mix.
I'm sorry, but I did get a smile out of that. Isn't always the case? It reminds me SO much of any type of serious conversation I try to have with my H - and not just about sex, about almost anything. It doesn't "mix" with whatever else he's doing. If I wanted to talk about genocide, he'd be watching MTV and complain I was being depressing.
After a few days on this board, though, I am very saddened by all our collective problems. I do wonder if almost every R has a tendency to evolve into a SSM. My own R is nowhere near the rocks stage, thankfully. (I've been through one D, and would not want another one - I'm well aware that many more things could have been done to prevent the first one if I hadn't been such a frickin' wimp). Still, as I read everyone's posts, I remember just how easy it is for things to get SOOO bad that one or the other partner simply does not care at all any more. Period. That's so bad.
Of course, one can still be living in a house and pretending to be in a R while not caring at all any more, either. I think some of these LD spouses are simply trying to live up to their marriage vows (by not leaving) while doing everything else to put distance between them and their H or W. It isn't just sex that they're avoiding, it's the whole R deal. My mother would simply say, "She loves him more than he loves her," (or vice versa) and skip all the other stuff.
Of course, I'm tremendously guilty of putting distance between my H and me at times of my own stress. And since one of my stressors is lack of S, you can picture what ensues.
But I did notice something, while on this thread, and that's the fact that my H and I have a very big Second Problem (other than a mildly SSM that may be on its way to getting worse) - and that's that we never talk about anything. One of us is almost always doing something that doesn't "mix" with what the other wants to do/talk about. Actually, he hates talking about things, he likes relating through touching and hugging and cuddling - that makes him feel better even if we are at total odds about something or other. Doesn't do a thing for me. If I'm mad because he's spent too much money or whatever or promised to do something and then not done it, cuddling does NOT improve the situation.
He does not, however, want to hear what I'm mad about. When he's mad, he simply shouts incoherently about whatever it is, and then later says he didn't mean it. I, however, am usually quite eloquent on what upsets me, and I mean what I say most of the time. And I want to be heard. Paradoxically, although he's yelling at the top of his lungs, he wants me NOT to remember or hear what he actually says in those moments.
So, basically, I have no idea whatsofrickinever what this guy is actually thinking or what he might actually be upset over. (He'd be upset for sure if he knew I was even thinking/journaling/posting about this kind of thing...he likes to think the relationship is perfect... )
Well, he does occasionally say suddenly: Is there anything you want to talk about? And the answer is almost always "no," because I don't want to hold a list of things to talk about in my mind until he is ready to hear them, I want to be able to talk about things that upset me as they are occurring (within reason, of course, I wouldn't bring stuff up late at night or right before work, etc., etc.) If I started "keeping book" on him well enough to remember what is actually upsetting me, I'd be pissed at him all the time.
As it stands, the Big Issues (little sex and no convo) are Too Big to be brought up so casually, the way he seems to think it can be done.
I need to learn (and I am going to go ponder this, maybe write it down) to have some small part of the issue ready to talk about in a casual way, something that will seem manageable to him. I could begin, for example, by asking, "Are you sure you want me to talk about what's bothering me? How much time are you willing to spend this time in talking to me?" And then judging how much I can throw out there by his response.
(Or I could just shoot the TV...I tried turning it off to make a point in my first marriage and the XH literally went for my throat, it was scary).
SBH, if you haven't done so already, pick up the book "Passionate Marriage" by David Schnarch, Ph.D. - it will explain all that stuff for you. Your sitch sounds pretty classic, FWIW. There's a chapter that talks about WHY married couples don't talk (each partner already knows the other doesn't want to hear what they have to say). It also explains why most relationships become SSM at some point. Believe me, it will be a revelation...
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