Advice on my Scenario Pt. 22

[SteveLW]

Steve, i dont particularly agree with that Proverb.
I discipline my son just fine without "The Rod"
if i have him for 3-4 days in a row, the crap behavior he exhibits after being with her all but fades away.
If anything i would say her use of "The Rod" (or in this case, hair pulling) is not only traumatizing him, but making his negative behaviors amplified.

-I would like to keep the focus on S3 here, and not fall into a theological debate, but i must say -

I am a bit alarmed by how many times ive seen the word "Hate" in bible verses you've quoted.

"God Hates Divorce"
"He who spares the rod hates their son"

You know I am not a man of faith, but i respect your choice to be one, however this aggressive mentality i dont think has a place in today's world.
How is it that God, who is all love, can hate so many things?
What cause does an omnipotent and omniscient entity have for hatred? If man was made in His image, wouldn't these things God "Hates" such as "sparing the rod" and Divorce, simply be mortal manifestations of Him simply existing in that which He created?
Seems contradictory to me.

I will just say be careful of translations. The King James says "He who spareth the rod spoileth the child."

Hate is an actual emotion. God HATES sin. But God loves the sinner. Big difference ther.e Today's world mixes up the two. That's a problem with today's world, not God or His plan.

But this is for another day and another discussion. I just couldn't let lcause's short-sighted opinion stated as universal fact go unpunished.

I like you was spanked by my parents, and I am better for it.

[OrangeK]

I agree, this is a conversation i would very much like to have. Just another day when we can share an exchange of ideas on theology and translations. I always enjoy an engaged discussion like that. Its the philosopher in me.

I dont think my parents were spanking me at 3, and certainly not twisting my hair like S3 showed me.

He wants a haircut anyway, i know ill catch S**t from EX when she sees his hair cut, but i dont need or desire he permission. So she can huff and bluster all she would like.
I am just protecting my son, and thats that.

[OrangeK]

I just couldn't let lcause's short-sighted opinion stated as universal fact go unpunished.

Steve, you know I am not a religious man, and i still respect your opinion's you keep as a man of faith.
Please try and do the same and keep an open mind.
to automatically dismiss someones statement as "Short-Sighted opinion stated as fact" is a bit ignorant dont you think?

[DonH]

I too don't want to take this discussion too far afield, but it really fascinates me how the millennial generation differs soooo much from the rest of the world - just amazing. And even when we are seeing how it is becoming a detriment to them, it's still all they know. Thing is, it's more my generation that created all of this in our kids!!!

Anyhow... Orange, I'm not sure I've posted to you all that much but dude, I really hope you hear me here. You have yourself so rammed up and whipped up into a frenzy here that you are creating things. Let's say for sake of argument that your ExW really did pull son 3s hair for five seconds at enough pain that it hurt him. Do you really thing that is ABUSE? Do you really think that this rises to the level of calling the police or CPS? No, it's not what you would do. I get that and will respect it. It's not your choice. Thing is, who says you are right? Abuse is or at least used to be pulling a child by his hair from one room to another. Putting the child in hot water that it causes burns. Giving the child drugs to put him or her to sleep, burning the child with cigarettes. That's what CPS was originally instituted for - not the same stuff that was done to me, my father and his father before him - and we all turned out just fine.

You don't have to like it. You don't have to agree with it, but I'm telling you, if you chose to fight her like this you are going to make a really, really difficult life for her, for you and for your child. You do not want to go down this road. You have to chose your battles. You have to deal with her for no less than 15 more years. Realistically it's going to be for a lifetime but on a large, weekly if not daily level, for 15 more years. You call CPS on her. I guarantee you they will find this case unfounded and THEY will close it. Your ExW on the other hand will take it as a declaration of war! Then something is going to happen and she's going to do the same on you. It's never going to end. Do you really want to take that chance?

I know you deny it but we can see it plain as day - you are really pissed. You are hurt. You are angry so you are taking things that, yeah, have some level of merit, and trying to make them a huge, huge deal and if that can't get her, then you'll call authorities who will go get her. The problem is, when you let these broken systems, often with people who are really marginal in their abilities start making decisions for you and your family, you are playing with fire. You are really gambling here. Never let a government third party make LIFE DECISIONS FOR YOUR FAMILY!!!

You don't have to like or agree with what she is doing but she is not abusing your child. She simply is not - not with a little pulling of his hair. So you'll fix her - you'll cut his hair so she can't do that again. My Lord, you sound like a teenager! Please, take a few hundred deep breaths here and try to step back. Heck, by your own admission you are saying that your "discipline" - as if a time out for a three year old means anything to them or having an "intellectual discussion" about appropriate behavior - is going to do anything in the first place... you yourself say it is not working.

One of the best things I learned from DR and DB is my way is not always the right way. You have it in your 30 year old head that you know it all. Your way is the right way and anyone who does not agree with you is simply wrong. Not even close! Your way may be the correct way FOR YOU. That does not mean it's the correct way for EVERYONE ELSE!!! You may not agree with co-sleeping or spanking. Well guess what, you might not be right about that. Of course you might. But it's totally up for debate. Leaving marks on your son has no debate and is something you call CPS for - sleeping in a bed with two adults or puling his hair for a few seconds????? And wanna bet he doesn't pull anyone's hair again????????????

I know that was a whopping 2X4 but I really think you are in huge need. Don't ramp up this situation with your ExW - you will regret it - I guarantee it!

[OrangeK]

Don. I respectfully disagree. I view it as abuse, as does my family, and several friends and colleagues i asked. So i am not alone in this opinion. As i said. If you had seen his reaction and the look on his face you would think differently.

If it happens again I am calling CPS.

My age has little to nothing to do with my decision.

If I am being honest, you can call me a millenial all you want. I dont see myself that way.
Additionally, i can say that i think your way of thinking is archaic, and you are a pushover.

If you think a stranger that has only know my son for Months, sharing a Bed is ok, then you have some very different views than I do.

I appreciate you taking the time to type such a detailed post, but i dont agree with a single word of it, and will be pursuing the course of action i feel is best for my son.

She isnt my family. she made that decision. Not my problem.

"if you chose to fight her like this you are going to make a really, really difficult life for her"
Again, not my problem. She has to live with the consequences of her choices to abuse her child.

Lastly, your continued reference and insult to my age proves that you are viewing my situation through your outdated, midwestern archaic method of thought.
My age is not a factor, and you seem to be very hung up on that, therefore i really cannot put too much credit in anything you have said here, as you have, on 2 separate occasions now, shown your blatant bias in this regard.

Again, i respectfuly disagree and will continue with what i feel is in the best interest of my son.
If you feel these infractions are not cause for Court intervention then I pity any children you may have raised.

Good Day Sir.

[SteveLW]

Steve, i dont particularly agree with that Proverb.
I discipline my son just fine without "The Rod"
if i have him for 3-4 days in a row, the crap behavior he exhibits after being with her all but fades away.
If anything i would say her use of "The Rod" (or in this case, hair pulling) is not only traumatizing him, but making his negative behaviors amplified.

-I would like to keep the focus on S3 here, and not fall into a theological debate, but i must say -

I am a bit alarmed by how many times ive seen the word "Hate" in bible verses you've quoted.

"God Hates Divorce"
"He who spares the rod hates their son"

You know I am not a man of faith, but i respect your choice to be one, however this aggressive mentality i dont think has a place in today's world.
How is it that God, who is all love, can hate so many things?
What cause does an omnipotent and omniscient entity have for hatred? If man was made in His image, wouldn't these things God "Hates" such as "sparing the rod" and Divorce, simply be mortal manifestations of Him simply existing in that which He created?
Seems contradictory to me.

I will just say be careful of translations. The King James says "He who spareth the rod spoileth the child."

Hate is an actual emotion. God HATES sin. But God loves the sinner. Big difference ther.e Today's world mixes up the two. That's a problem with today's world, not God or His plan.

But this is for another day and another discussion. I just couldn't let lcause's short-sighted opinion stated as universal fact go unpunished.

I like you was spanked by my parents, and I am better for it.

Unpunished was the wrong word, unrefuted was what I meant to type.

[SteveLW]

I just couldn't let lcause's short-sighted opinion stated as universal fact go unpunished.

Steve, you know I am not a religious man, and i still respect your opinion's you keep as a man of faith.
Please try and do the same and keep an open mind.
to automatically dismiss someones statement as "Short-Sighted opinion stated as fact" is a bit ignorant dont you think?

No I don't. Ignorant means uninformed. As a former child myself, and as someone that raised a child, I can honestly say that what lcause said was short-sighted. And he stated that opinion as if it was an universal fact. And that anyone that disagreed with it had a third world mentality and was VIOLENT and ABUSIVE to their kids. THAT is ignorant.

OK please understand, this is a bigger discussion than whether or not you STBXW abused your S. That is between you, her and him. I am merely stating that in general corporal punishment IS not abuse. And there are times and circumstances that call for it.

[SteveLW]

Again, i respectfuly disagree and will continue with what i feel is in the best interest of my son.
If you feel these infractions are not cause for Court intervention then I pity any children you may have raised.

Good Day Sir.

See now, this was uncalled for. You are constantly saying in these threads that we need to "agree to disagree", yet you respond with passive-aggressive comments (I pity your kids), and dismissive closings ("Good Day Sir." calling me "Bud" yesterday).

I am not saying this to be "abrasive or abusive" but to point out to you that you teach people how you would like to be treated by the way you treat people. Saying let's agree to disagree, and then being disagreeable in doing so is contradictory, and escalates the disagreement.

Anyway, just again, something to think about. We are all here trying to help one another. Through encouragement, through different perspectives, through disagreeing, and yes sometimes coming down on one another. Just like I am thankful I had parents that spanked me, I also am thankful that the veterans here hit my with 2x4s (figuratively) in my thread. I believe, truly, that those 2x4s helped me with my sitch and helped get it where it is today.

As always OK, I care about you. I want you to be healthy and strong to move forward into the next chapter of your life!

[Ginger1]

If you truly think he is being abused and in danger, why are you waiting to see if "this happens again"?

[OrangeK]

Ginger, I am not waiting. I think you may have misunderstood me is all, I already documented this event and submitted it to my lawyer. what I meant was if I hear of anything like this happening again I'm not going to wait to hear back from my lawyer I'm just going to contact Child Protective Services directly and immediately as well as the local police department