He did not mention OW or his new place or his family discussion. I had decided not to bring it up for a number of reasons, but was prepared to discuss it non-emotionally if he did.
He called me re: questions I'd had-- midday at work, at a very bad time and a fairly unusual time for him.
I snapped at him and told him I could not talk. (yes, I know. And this is SUCH a rare thing for me, a practical 180.).
He said he knew that (why call me when he knows I can't talk is the obvious Q--but I didn't ask). I felt I was unfair -- and I don't want to be the abrupt person -- and so I emailed him to let him know when he could reach me and to apologize for being abrupt. I did say here that he'd called at the worst possible moment in my office, but that to be honest part of my reaction was also not feeling good about how he was handling us right now. (this is the kind of honesty we had been asking of each other before the papers, so I kept that up)
He called me back at home at the time we discussed. I reinterated the apology and he said he completely understood.
We went over the issues at hand and he was agreeable. Apologized about the delay in handling these items and basically agreed to take care of each item as discussed.
One of the issues was a letter I'd received from his lawyer. I told him (again) that he could propose a settlement that I would take to a lawyer or we could work on it together but that I would not be calling his lawyer. It doesn't make sense to ring up legal bills to discuss things he and I have already talked about. He agreed and said yes, this made good sense. I told him I trusted him to stick to the things we'd discussed, so there was no big deal here.
Though he keeps offering to do more and more, he has not actually done any work on my web site in many weeks. I pleasantly told him not to worry about it, that a friend (did not elaborate) has offered to help with it and I'll be taking him up on that.
Then I was ready to go. But he asked about my work, asked lots of interested follow-up questions about my new boss, workload, etc. This is not typical. I answered them all, said things are stressful but for understandable reasons, overall it's good, etc.
I asked briefly about his work, which he said he likes (he was not enthusiastic, but he's had lots of complaints up to now), but is still having trouble with getting paid regularly. (It's contract work.)
I'm not reading anything into any of this, by any means.
But he was very friendly and agreeable, and the type of questions he asked about work had a lot more depth than he's had in ages--much more like old H questions.
If this is how we interact, does it make sense to give him some of what he wants (friendship, based on what I am willing to do) or shut him down completely until he cleans up his act?
Any thoughts on this? I know where I am leaning (won't tell you so as to skew your thinking), but I'd really be interested to gather some new perspective.
So, is he telling people he is IN love with OW? Is he presenting them as a couple publically?
...hmmm...My magic 8-ball isn't very clear this morning, but I am spending a lot of time thinking about it.
I think I would go for the letter a la Betsy approach. There's always time to avoid him later. Once again, I would hope to make him give some definition to what he sees as your future relationship. And maybe convey some of your own expectations as to what that friendship would be like in order for you to even want the friendship. If part of your thinking is that his future friendship might be more pain than pleasure unless he puts work into it, you could let him know that.
The other thought that floated to the surface of my Magic 8 ball is: What if you went on a date and let this get back to him? I know this is not something you want to do in the early stages, but maybe now there is someone you might like a light, fun evening with? I know your H is a very intelligent and sensitive man, but would it help at all to jog that primitive part of his brain with some jealousy? [PS it goes without saying that you wouldn't "use" someone else for this purpose, but I'll put it in here for the benefit of other readers. I know you handle your life very thoughtfully and ethically.)
I'd be interested in hearing what the DB power users would advise in this case.
Quote: he was very friendly and agreeable, .......
If this is how we interact, does it make sense to give him some of what he wants (friendship, based on what I am willing to do) or shut him down completely until he cleans up his act?
I think this depends on you, and the person you want to be.
Do you want to be the type of person who is friendly, outgoing and just plain happy on the outside, showing people that you are whole and comfotable in the shoes that you walk in?
Or do you want to be the type of person who seems to be the grumpy old ogre to those people who are being friendly with you?
Positive interaction with ones that have hurt us is hard to have, because alot of the time we let our emotions and feelings get in the way.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being friendly. If he wants to be friendly, let him be friendly. But it is your choice to be friendly back.
Just like you have the choice to be friendly when he is not. Its all a matter of what path you want to walk down. And which path will be the one that makes YOU look the better person.
I personally try to be as friendly as possible to my W, but the image of OMs in my head sometimes creep in. I hate that, but it is something I have to deal with. Being friendly helps (and hurts), but after a while, especially being that way to all others, the hurt gets less and less.
Did I make even an ounce of sense here? too much coffee I think.
Have a great day wonder!
Triple J
Things were different then. All is different now. I tried to explain, somehow..........
Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam)
Yes, he is presenting the two of them publically as a couple. However, he has been doing this from the day he officially moved out, so that is not anything new. They've been very public.
He is now saying to his family the divorce is a decision he has made and that he are going to "be together" (a big phrase with OW). This is all the same stuff he's said before.
One thing I won't do is try to talk him out of whatever it is he's doing. If it's what he wants, it's what he wants.
He's not said a word about OW to me, but it's clearly what he is still doing. The most interesting thing to me is he has consistently said none of this "is about" OW.
Quote: I know this is not something you want to do in the early stages, but maybe now there is someone you might like a light, fun evening with? I know your H is a very intelligent and sensitive man, but would it help at all to jog that primitive part of his brain with some jealousy?
I have been thinking about this for a bit, actually, not as a jealousy thing-- as something I might do for myself. There seems to be no lack of interest (that is just such a revelation when you've been with someone for 15 years! feels very odd). There are a few people I'd consider spending a light evening with. I'm going to a party for work this weekend... maybe that will help.
Quote: Do you want to be the type of person who is friendly, outgoing and just plain happy on the outside, showing people that you are whole and comfotable in the shoes that you walk in?
Or do you want to be the type of person who seems to be the grumpy old ogre to those people who are being friendly with you?
I am just so not the grumpy old ogre... can't even get a visual on that one. But you're sure right that my emotions get in the way. And I was grumpy to H last week for the first time in a long while-- in part in reaction to that.
I guess I wonder if I want to put myself in a situation where the issue even comes up. Because I wouldn't intentionally be "unfriendly" to my H if he approached me.
I guess I'm trying to figure out if I wish to set the ground rules or leave the whole thing more open.
I think you helped me answer some of my questions. Thank you!
As I just said on my thread, I am thinking of asking h to dinner so we can clear the air and figure out if a friendship is at all possible.
I like the idea of writing your H a letter. You can post it here and we can help edit. It sounds like once you got past the "calling at a bad time" thing that you had a positive interaction!
Let me ask you this....when you see H is calling on caller ID do you cringe?? I DO! Which leads me to conclude that I am not feeling so great about our interactions lately!!
Maybe it is better to pretend they fell off the planet??!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
I don't have anything profound to add to all this great advice and insight you are getting from Azure, SS, Triple, and others....
Just want tyou to know you seem soooo strong, confident, and on the track that is taking you in a forward direction. The letter idea seems to make a lot os sense. Share more thoughts about what you might say...
You have come such a long way...continue to take wonderful care of yourself, I believe you have so much to offer....the right man will one day fully appreciate who you are and what you are all about. Sounds like your H has those thoughts, too, from time to time.
I would guess that OW is filling him with info/ideas on how to handle you and the sitch. Let her blow it a few times...keep your distance from talking about her...she will mess up in time, I'm sure.
Hang in there....you are doing so well. And, thanks for all your cheerleading in my sitch....I truly appreciate your words of wisdom. LOL Mooka
I am just so not the grumpy old ogre... can't even get a visual on that one.
I think you helped me answer some of my questions. Thank you!
well, if your laughing, then I don't see how it is possible that you are a grumpy old ogre!!!!
Let me ask you a question. Why would you purposely put yourself in an "unfriendly" sitch right now?
The secret to my PMA right now is just that. I am not putting myself in those positions. If I am feeling less than happy, I am dang sure to not talk to the W at that moment. She seems to be mirroring me lately anyway, and Lord knows I don't want to see grumpy W.
Establishing ground rules (or boundaries as some call it here), can be advantageous, but it depends on the sitch. But you can say the same if you want to keep the whole thing wide open.
It seemed to me, Wonder, that things are great with you and that one little period where you weren't feeling all that happy kind of bothered you and threw you for a loop. Maybe thats a little drastic and extreme, but it did make you show a side to your H that you and him haven't seen in a while.
Is it possible to combine the two approaches here? I don't know really.
I am so glad that I made you laugh, I seem to have that knack lately. Your welcome!
Triple J
Things were different then. All is different now. I tried to explain, somehow..........
Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam)
Thanks for the excellent feedback & suggestions. I'm still mulling over what I want to do-- and what I want. I will keep you posted when I come to some kind of choice about it.
In the meantime, I am living my life as you all so wisely remind me to do! And going with my when in doubt, do nothing rule.
Quote: Let me ask you this....when you see H is calling on caller ID do you cringe?? I DO! Which leads me to conclude that I am not feeling so great about our interactions lately!!
Sun, I don't cringe. There was a blip where I did, but usually I am pleased... and a lot of times that's been warranted but other times I've gotten knocked on my a** expecting something, even something tiny. Then at those times, I feel icky afterwards...which is not good.
Did you suggest that dinner to your H?
Quote: It seemed to me, Wonder, that things are great with you and that one little period where you weren't feeling all that happy kind of bothered you and threw you for a loop.
Triple J, do you have a spy in my house? To answer your question, why would I put myself in an unfriendly sitch... well, I wouldn't. The fact is my H has been friendly in most interactions we've had for a very long time... except when I was mulling over what to do about his filing papers... then he was just pushy and wanting nothing but the answer to that question. It was clear to me pressure was coming from somewhere because that's not how he is.
Honestly, most often I hear sadness in his voice when I talk with him. Occasionally he might be in a good mood, but it's 90% sadness.
Friendly I am fine with when the occasions arise. But "friendship" is something different altogether as discussed earlier on this thread. This is the stumbling block going forward for me right now.
Because let's face it, if my H were treating me like a friend and acting in a way I respected, he'd pretty likely be living here by now. Our reconciliation attempts would have been different, I know that. I jumped into them too fast without seeing the evidence, I know that in hindsight. I do not mean that he is a bad person-- I am talking about behavior choices here.
Mooka, I think your assessment was not far off the mark, as OW has been very pushy about him needing a divorce (cause we all know I caused his depression and kept him from happiness all these years and getting out of his marriage will make it all better). Oh well. I learned not to go there a long time ago.
I hope someday I won't "cringe" when I see it is him calling...guess it has to do with expectations, huh?? I know I should really just look at it as another chance to hone my dbing skills!!! LOL!
No, I haven't suggested the dinner yet...not sure what I'm waiting for, I know know the time is not right yet......
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
And this is SUCH a rare thing for me, a practical 180.).
Which leads me to conclude that I am not feeling so great about our interactions lately!!
And going with my when in doubt, do nothing rule.