Quote: I feel like when he looks at me now, he is trying really hard to keep me in that image that he made to justify what he was doing, putting up walls so as not to connect with the person actually standing in front of him. And then he wants to be "friends", but with who? Because it's not like he sees me. I hear ya! Sounds like my H also! My H doesn't take the time to find out who is really standing in front of him either. They choose to paint a picture of someone to justify leaving us.
Some of that comes from feeling alone and needing me to be there for him more emotionally...and then not letting me in. Lots of stuff. -- he wasn't seeing ME, but this creation of me... Yes, I think this is all about them and their wants, their thoughts. They CAN'T let go. Deep down the real person is in there shouting "keep a connection with your S" But they are so he// bent on the new path, they try to ignore that person. That is way sometimes we think they want to reconcile; that person speaks up and our S's want to keep that thread and hold on to it!
Now it is as if we never had those conversations because we are right back to "I was unhappy and divorcing you will make me happy." But wait, don't go anywhere? Let's be friends.
LMAO! You hit it on the head, wonder! Weird how my H thinks the same way! Unreal! And here we are standing there wondering; what are they talking about, what do they mean, ARE they NUTS!
I am not sure which it is, but I suspect it's being so wrapped up in pain and the A path he started down that just doing something else is what he's convinced himself he "needs to" do.
OMG, That is so true! My H is so set to end this M, I don't think NOTHING can change his mind! Wonder what happens when they realize they have chosen the wrong path? I think my H will, but it may be too late and he will then be "stuck" in a place he doesn't want to be!
It's baffling to me that he can't see that he could also "start over" with me and lose a whole lot less. EXACTLY! But most of the time they DON'T wake up until after the D. By then, they think it is too late to change and come back.
Your perception on this is right on the money! That is why the biggest percentage of the time when you "act as if" you are moving on without them, that is when they decide to come running back to you. That is when that "old" inner self screams. Sometimes they listen and come running or sometimes they are stubborn and stay in the tunnel.
Detach and act as if you are moving on without him! It is better for you and will either wake him up or not. Either way you will feel better about yourself!
YIKES! Can't afford to lose Sun! (No problem with hijiking over here!)
Thanks for the post, Deb. Coming here and being able to vent and work through this stuff--on the BB and with BB friends-- has been so helpful in evaluating where I'm at, especially this week.
I'm feeling much better for that today, and as I realized this morning... as M. Williamson says in Enchanted Love, I've finally reached the point where I want a guy who can swim on his own, not one I am carrying to shore or dragging into the water.
So if H decides to be that guy in some reasonable timeframe, great. And if he decides to be a real friend, I'll work with that idea.
If not, well, I can still make the best of the situation and find the opportunities to enjoy the water. (thanks, Seattle, for reminding me)
So my act as if, well, I guess it's not really an act right now. That doesn't mean it's easy or that it's not scary. But I do know I can do it and that I feel very good about the person I am choosing to be.
I have kept up with your thread for a while now, and so much of the stuff you feel these days is echoed in my feelings here. It's a constant tussle between losing respect for your H and wanting to work things out and do the right thing and all that.
I think in both your case and mine we need to really tackle the project of OURSELVES - just live life to the fullest, do things we might not have done with our H around and all that. Please ourselves. Get to a really good place. With or without H.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Quote: It's a constant tussle between losing respect for your H and wanting to work things out and do the right thing and all that.
Yes, I think you summed that up really well. It is like that. I do believe I have been doing the right thing... and while I can be really compassionate now about his own struggle-- at the end of ther day I'm not willing to use it as an excuse for bad treatment. He seems to be sticking close by people who will let that slide.
Quote: I think in both your case and mine we need to really tackle the project of OURSELVES - just live life to the fullest, do things we might not have done with our H around and all that. Please ourselves. Get to a really good place. With or without H.
Yes, I think you're right! That's something I've been working on for a good while. I think my biggest issue these days is that I had mostly gotten to that place... I feel I've done so much work on me (though it never really ends) and really found a good place in my life. But I allowed myself to set a little of that aside for H the past several months in the hope that he was coming up the path (sure did seem like he was, too).
I have seen that I was willing to be too flexible with someone who clearly was not ready to do any kind of work, who seems to see the very idea of work as some kind of negative idea.
Right now, he'll have to run faster catch up if he wants to be a friend or anything else.
I do wish I knew who he seeks advice from these days, because it sure does seem like his most recent actions are designed to push me as far away as possible. And I don't think any of that is accidental.
One thing I am finding is that while I've expressed lots of confusion over his back and forth, tried to analyze it, and have been matter of fact about what he's doing, other people want to be bitter and angry and attack him. I won't attack him that way or expend my energy on that.
I guess maybe they're feeling outraged for me, but that kind of reactive stuff only makes me feel worse, not better.
Very right on, Wonder, as always. I, too, have had the thought that I would like to know WHO is giving your H advice these days. I think you're right that he is following someone's lead, whether it be OW, MIL, a counselor, a friend -- but it's wierd advice, heading him off in a direction I feel that he'll want to reverse at some point. It seems so clear to me that there can't be anyone in his life who is handling things with more grace, wisdom, honesty, and compassion than YOU. I'm not saying this just so support you, it is genuinely how I perceive the situation. So why is he putting up so many walls? It worries me for him. You, of course, will be fine. Not that it's not hard work, but because you are DOING the hard work.
I completely agree with you on the challenge of others wanting you to be mean or vindictive towards him. I think that overall, that has been one of the hardest things for me in my own sitch -- in real life, not here on the BB. I recognize that people are trying to be protective, and perhaps it is even a hard-wired response of some type to seeing pain in those we care about (like a mother lion reaction?). I mean, on some occasions it's good when I need to get some anger/distance/perspective on the situation, but I prefer to get that from people who do not see my H as a one-dimensional person, with that one dimension being an a-hole (scuse my French). If we didn't think they were worthy in at least some ways, why would we be DBing so hard? I have felt like a defense attorney at times for my H, "But your honor, my client is a good man who has taken a wrong turn --"
Am I making sense, or do I need more coffee this morning?
Basically I want to say that, while your H's actions perplex me, I have faith that both he and you are good people, and I support you in frustration -- but agree that he should not be condemned, and that that is not helpful.
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
I know it is tempting to feel angry at H...I spent some time there a while back but it is pretty unproductive. I find that when people want to bash him, I just smile and change the subject...it works wonders and really shows that you have moved on from his drama!!
I am still wrestling with the "friends" vs "pretending he dropped off the face of the earth" thing.... Sounds like you are too!!
I know I have to be in contact with him 'til the house sells, after that I guess it's anybody's bet!
You are in a good place with everyhting right now so don't let others who don't understand your sitch lead you astray!!!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
Azure, thanks for the vote of confidence. It is all very peculiar, I think. I know what you mean about the defense atty. I feel like that too. And people sometimes mistake that for excusing his behavior-- to me they are different things. I do believe he is a good man who's gotten very lost... and frankly, can't seem to deal with that. He's creating a new identity for himself as far as I can tell... and the reason he's telling others (supposedly)? "I just fell out of love." Translation: Rewind the past two years. We are back in time, folks.
And that's not where I want to live, thanks.
Sun, glad you're back. I spent time in anger already, too. And occasionally, I get mad at something, but it passes when you let it pass. I really like your response. I said to two people recently that their anger and blaming just wasn't helpful to me, that I'd worked to move beyond that and wanted to stay there. One confused response and one positive response.
The funny thing to me (yes, maybe my humor is odd) is that these angry and disgusted reactions are the exact ones H told me he was so worried about getting if I were to "take him back". They really do see with dark glasses on, sometimes.
Yup. I am still thinking over the friends thing. Or actually how I want to address the friends thing. I guess this has replaced the earlier decisions I was trying to make.
I have had two thoughts.
1. That I might write him a positive letter not completely unlike Betsey's... though not asking about our marriage, obviously, but this friendship he envisions. That would give him the opportunity to think on it and me the opportunity to have solid information to work with.
2. That we continue to pretend each other has fallen off the planet until he has some reason to contact me. This would allow him to have space if he needs that (or to avoid me altogether, if that's what he's doing)-- as well as perhaps the opportunity to immerse himself in a life that I am just plain not in (therefore not any kind of problem) and would give me the opportunity to do, well, something I am sure. Just not sure what.
I guess one while both send messages, one is also asking for a message.
Either way, I am also getting back in gear with my own goals. Not that I've gotten so off track, but have been a bit lazy.
Just checking my communication skills.
And I don't think any of that is accidental.