Still Navigating

[AndrewP]

Betty was smart and beautiful, but they all chased after Veronica.
They are all going for women that are not truly available. These boards alone are proof.

The more I read, the more I think that I'm an outlier which TBH doesn't surprise me much.

....and as far as the double standard, it p@sses me off that it exists, but it is what it is. I'm sure many guys have let go of some wonderful woman because she slept with him soon. Too bad for that guy who didn't get to know the woman who is confident in her sexuality, has her sh!t together, is a good mother, has a great career and is smart and intelligent all because you wanted sex as much as her. Total package if you ask me.

In the limited number of very serious relationships I have had in my lifetime, there was active pursuit by the other person in the two cases where I didn't more or less get friend-zoned. While I didn't sleep with my first love on the first date, she invited me in with an obvious invitation and she did succeed on the second. My ex, who I was with for 26 years had me in bed with her the first night we met and never let me out of her sight for years.

Now Ginger - you and I have for years now agreed that I'm not the sort of guy you are interested in. I do make decent pancakes but also have ugly wallpaper in my house so my perspectives may not be that of the sort of guy you are looking for.

Now for me, intimacy is commitment and exclusivity. Let's say that "church lady" did slip through my door this past weekend. I would have been pleased but also terrified. I would have had an expectation that it was the beginning of something that would bloom into something more. It didn't happen and that was probably for the best. But a key thing here is that I needed her to drive the agenda on where she wanted things to go. Especially in this more modern age informed consent is so very very important. I was raised to treat all woman like a lady giving them respect and respecting their rights to make their own choices about their lives and their bodies.

In my engagement with several women over the past 2 years I believe that I've shown interest in a respectful fashion (no hoo baby! Shake that thang!) and opened the door to communication. In some cases it's happened. I've heard from Church Lady a few times since the weekend but only about mundane things as we were organizing how we could mee to some of her stuff. That didn't pan out for the short term and I sort of expect that she'll drift off. Perhaps she's waiting for me to do the active chasing? I don't know. Drives me nuts a bit TBH

As far as guys who expect sex on the first, second, x date - yeah - that's a thing. I know that it's not 1954. You see a few here who aren't like that though so I hope it gives you some different perspective that "not all guys are the same". I'm (more or less) voluntarily celibate because I have ugly wallpaper and haven't gotten close enough to anyone to make that irrelevant. Doodler perhaps because he would hate to show up for a date in the same outfit as his date had chosen.

Not sure if this was helpful or not - but it is a different perspective from the (seemingly large) number of men here who before the ink is dry on their divorce are jumping into dating and new relationships.