I am sorry G my advice would be this. I would not reach out to him again and see if he initiates conversation with you and/or another date. Men are very visual creatures so I doubt he would be having sex with you if he didn't think you were attractive. For men the physical attraction comes first and then the emotions come second (unless he just wants the sex). I would surmise having sex with any man early on would be difficult because I think most woman do it because they feel an emotional connection first and the physical part is not as important (it is but not like it is to a man).
In my opinion if he is enjoying the sex and you are cooking him made from scratch meals with no pressure for a R why would he stop? I think the only reason why he would is if he started to feel guilty about the situation and he knows that he does not want a R with you.
My buddies and I discuss woman who have sex on the first date and unfortunately we know that if they did it with us they have done it with another man as well. As you know some of it is male/female stereotypes that society put labels on (ok for the man but not ok for the woman) however the men that I know would probably not consider a woman for a long term partner if she is having sex on the first date.
I do understand why your struggling and if by having sex early on creates an emotional bond for you with the other person that might be why you are left wanting more or find yourself in these situations.
I would not lead with your strongest hand, make him work for it, a man needs to earn it. Build up the desire and the attraction and then give it to him when the time is right. I understand why you do what you do and I think it's fine if your just looking for fun, no commitments, and your exploring. If you want something more serious I would suggest you change it up. Make him earn it G.
I read all that you said and I'm still kind of processing, but I think the fact that the 2 men rang in before me to give such sage advice probably is better anyway. What they said!
In all seriousness, the one thing that stuck out to me was your saying that you lead with sex because you feel confident there. I'd like to ask a somewhat rhetorical question here just to give you something to think about. You said in that same part of your post that you have all these positive qualities and you listed them very specifically. And, they are absolutely FANTASTIC qualities. Then you said you lead with sex because you feel confident in that particular area, which is not necessarily a bad thing. You are an adult woman with needs and you own it, so good for you. But here is my question..............in leading with sex because that is where you are confident, are you defining your worth based on your partner's enjoyment of the experience? You have so many positive qualities that you seem to recognize and those should be what you base your worth on. I know you already know that....you're a grown woman with a daughter, so of course you know that. But, do you really SEE it?
Hang in there, G. I hope today gets better for you. Know that there are lots of people out there sending you positive vibes today.
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
Hi Ginger, you have made me tear a little. Tomorrow is the day when my dad passed away, 25 years ago. 25 years! We always keep alive the ones who loved us, they live inside. Share your memories with your D, share your mom´s love with her.
Thank you all for taking the time out and read my long ranting. And for the really good advice.
I obviously know what I need to not do to help me get what I truly desire. I have no shame in enjoying the sex or having it early on (we are talking like once a year this happens) if that's all I am really looking for. Nothing wrong with that. And there was a time that was all I wanted. That time is not now.
He should have to work. So I am going to let him. Any plans before our 8/9 plans need to be made by him. he's got it good right. Homemade meals, good sex, and an interesting woman. If he likes it, he can come get it.
Dawn, you bring up an excellent question. And you nailed it. I have only been validated on "performance" and looks, so to speak. I am not a looker, but I guess I appeal to a certain type. So since I have been validated on that, I am more comfortable and lead with it. While I really do think I have a lot to offer otherwise and I am confident, I have never really been validated on it. Guys may have said such things about me, but their follow-through has always showed otherwise. Lord, I am basing my worth on what guys think of me. Not good. I wasn't aware until now. So thank you for that. I can always admit to where I fall short. I fall short here and I am not proud of this.
Thank you for the hugs for my mom. It's tough because it's not as simple as my mom and I had this great relationship and I just miss her. There are so many unresolved issues with my mom, this day brings up sadness, and anger, and longing and a whole mess of emotions. Luckily, it only surfaces on this day. But it's never a good day for me.
So, I backslid (I haven't used that term in a long time, because I can control my actions pretty well these days, thanks, DB). I asked him if he wanted to grab a quick drink because I need to get out tonight. He actually responded a half hour later. He has plans with the school dads. he was nice about it. I wish I didn't do it, but I did act on emotion. I rarely ever do that anymore, so I am going to forgive myself. I am not reaching out anymore. his turn next.
I get to see some of my favorite DB people this weekend. I look forward to this every year. D10 is a part of the festivities too. Then I am going to my cousins beach house on Sunday and we are all going to enjoy a day at the beach. so far, I think the weather is cooperating.
tonight I am going to IC, the gym, then home to eat Chinese food in honor of my mom. Cry, then go to sleep. Maybe pray for some guidance and clarity too.
I am sorry neffer that you have suffered the premature loss of a parent also. It's really tough. memories are what we have and never, ever lose them!
My buddies and I discuss woman who have sex on the first date and unfortunately we know that if they did it with us they have done it with another man as well. As you know some of it is male/female stereotypes that society put labels on (ok for the man but not ok for the woman) however the men that I know would probably not consider a woman for a long term partner if she is having sex on the first date.
GRRRR....misogyny makes me so freakin' mad!
How about this Joseph - how about when your friends say something like this, you call them out as hypocritical man sluts? How about you be the standup guy that respects women and stands up for their rights, and challenges the misogynistic thinking around you? Try it some time.
Now yes, it's true, some men might think like that BUT IF THEY DO WE DON'T WANT THEM ANYWAY!!!!!! Certainly intelligent accomplished women like Ginger don't want guys with such stone age attitudes.
Now Ginger - that being said, it is kinda true that many people (men and women) seem to value something if they have to work harder for it. Think of all the people who tell their "how we met" stories that involve one party working really hard to get the other to go out with them. People love that sh!t and it is true that sleeping with someone early on deprives them of the chance to build that story. Also, you like many people start to get attached (that darned oxytocin at work, released during sex) before you really have time to learn whether you like the other aspects of this person (like, he's a bad communicator who doesn't seem to want a relationship and doesn't make you feel valued).
The way I see it, you have a few options here: 1) Just decide that he's a FWB and nothing more, and start dating other men. I mean, the sex IS good and you've suffered from a dearth, there is some value to that. However I think it would be too hard for you to divorce your feelings from the situation to actually enjoy that.
2) Actually ask for what you want. To do this you must accept all the possible outcomes, including learning that he doesn't care enough to actually text you. But it's also possible that he might just be clueless in this regard - it's fair to give the guy the chance to remedy something that bothers you so much. You could just simply say - "you know, the fact that you almost never text me between dates makes me feel like you aren't very interested" and see what his response is.
3) Wait and see if he contacts you WITHOUT you or your cousin saying or texting a thing. If he takes 2 weeks or longer, then you HAVE A DATE if he calls you again. YOU ARE NOT AVAILABLE. This has the advantage of possibly stimulating him to pursue you BUT it also sets up a secret "test", which I never like - women do this to men all too often.
My preference is for 2 - just ask for what you'd like and then if he doesn't step up you'll know for sure he's just not interested in a relationship and can move on. And if he does step up you'll know he's at least interested.
Obviously my statement has struck a chord so I apologize if I offended anyone.....it was certainly not my intent. My only intent was to point out that this way of thinking does exist.
Obviously my statement has struck a chord so I apologize if I offended anyone.....it was certainly not my intent. My only intent was to point out that this way of thinking does exist.
Don't feel bad Josepsh9 - I said pretty much the same thing nearly a month ago and got pretty much the same reaction. However, I stand by it - especially because I did not come up with it - others much smarter and with much more experience than I did. There is nothing new about this. We can hate that it's unfair and guys do it and women can't - although I'll say on this that the guys who do are looked on as players by many women and not respected as well. You can try to swim up stream and change the world but the phrase "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" has a basis in truth. Again, like it or not, I hear guys saying the same thing. We even know which girls are "easy" and have slept with several of our friends. And no, I'm not going to try to change the world by telling them they are wrong. Though not much, I've done it myself.
As for HC, I am really thinking it does not matter. He's been very clear from day one in that he does not want an R. He's been honest from the get go. I've dealt with this in my life as well. I can think back to someone I had a really, really fun summer with and still look fondly back at. I knew i didn't have a huge psychical attraction to her, but she was fun, she was good friends with the GF of one of my good friends, so we all hung out together. She was also one of the best in bed I've ever been with. But I told her from the first date on that I was just looking to have fun, I was not looking for an R. Yet, I think because I spent time with her, did pay attention, she thought I was changing my mind. I was not. I was honest right away and continued to be, yet she was somewhat surprised and hurt when I ended it. It had ran it's course and I was moving on. Guys and women as well will often tell us what's going on if we'll just listen.
So, in the case of HC, I don't think it would have mattered all that much as far as him wanting an R. I am nearly positive he would have pursued you more if he had to. However, HE DOESN'T HAVE TO!!! - so why would he? You are delivering everything to him on a platter - what is there for him to pursue?
I very much pay attention to trends and patterns. Things happen in one-off's but patterns and trends are where it's at. Being here with you Ginger and getting to know you some, there is a clear pattern to what you do. That's why I keep saying if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll continue to get what you've always gotten. Another trend I've seen over and over is you say one thing here or try to convince yourself of something yet you do another. "I'm not going to contact him - he will need to do it." Then within 24-hours you are contacting him. Or you'll try to convince yourself "I'm just having fun, I need sex too, it's no big deal." Yet that is not even close to the case. It's at least half the time that when you say you are going to do something - or not going to do something - you do the exact opposite within a week.
I really think you just need to be honest because I do agree with what you've said in that what you want is not wrong. It's not wrong to want an R - it is not. I really think you just need to be honest - perhaps first of all with yourself. Just own what it is you want. From what I can see, you want a BOYFRIEND. You want a RELATIONSHIP. You want someone to text you in the morning and say goodnight at the end of the day. You want to see them several times a week. You want the R to be headed someplace - hopefully to marriage. There is nothing wrong with wanting those things. But if you do, you won't get them from some of the guys you are trying to get them from. You are picking guys that do not want these things and tell you so. You will also not get there by going all in and giving away everything within the first few dates. It will both take the right guy and it will take time.
I may say this same thing on someone else's thread as well: There is nothing wrong with asking for what you want - when the timing is right. I agree with KML that at this point, saying that you feel bad that you don't hear from him much if at all between dates bothers you. I would not suggest saying that if you just had gone out to dinner a few times with someone - but after spending the night multiple times, cooking dinner, waking up and spending some time together in the morning, etc. there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for something like that. Although, the fact that he's not just doing it... I think that says something. I know that if this were me, I would not be able to keep from having some contact between dates - unless they were not dates and just booty calls with my FWB. Then again, even with my FWB, I'd have some contact. I wonder what he's telling his friends about you? I don't mean that bad either - as in I don't think he's speaking badly about you, but I wonder what is going on in his head? I can only assume.
You deserve what you want G. You don't have to just accept the crumbs these guys are willing to offer. That doesn't mean go full steam in right away, but you have so much more to offer than your body and your talents in the bedroom - SO MUCH MORE. I've seen this in so many women - might be seeing it now in Wild Girl for all I know and to be honest. I think you've been so beaten down by some of these guys - not on purpose, just in happenstance - that you don't have the confidence left. If you really want and need the sex - find yourself a FWB. I'm sure you can. But don't let any guy who you think you want an R with become one. I fear HC has.
There is nothing wrong with wanting what it is you want. Figure out what it is - then don't sell yourself short and don't let anyone else sell you short of it. You are wroth so much more!
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Obviously my statement has struck a chord so I apologize if I offended anyone.....it was certainly not my intent. My only intent was to point out that this way of thinking does exist.
Don't apologize for saying it.
I'd rather men be honest if they feel like this. How else are women supposed to know whom to avoid?
(Caveat. I don't mind men who don't want to go out with a woman who has sex on the first date if they themselves have never had sex on a first date.But if they have a different standard for women then they do for themselves, then that's hypocrisy. And life is too short for that.)
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
I’m sorry you’ve had a rough day. Some days are just emotional. It’s okay-all of us have those days where we feel like a giant dodo bird is pooping on our head.
You’ve received some fantastic and wise advice from everyone. Don (hi Don!) makes a great point. I have hooked up with a guy a few times over the last 5 months. If you had told me 5 years ago I would do this, I would tell you that you weee crazy. He’s funny, hot and a playa. I know that. So, I don’t think even though I’m considered very attractive (for my age) , that the 45 yr old woman with 3 kids will be the one to capture his heart. However, he reaches out either daily or at least every other day. We talk about sports, work, etc. We are friends on some level. I’m not delusional. :-) This isn’t going to become anything more. I don’t think anything you do or have done will make a difference in HC wanting a R. Don is spot on when he says it doesn’t matter if you have sex, don’t have sex, initiate contact of not. I think this will not blossom into what you are looking for and doesn’t mean you aren’t good enough. You are fabulous, beautiful, warm anc funny but you must start seeking people who want what you want. There is no way around that.
Maybe I’m wrong but I always feel like if people want to reach out, they do. How hard is it to send a “hi” text? It’s not. If HC wants to know how you are, he will ask. So I may be the dissenter in saying that bringing to his attention that you feel like you are out of sight and out of mind when you aren’t around isn’t really what you want to bring up. I wouldn’t because I honestly think HC (and he sounds like a great guy) knows that he can reach out to you. He just chooses not to and I hope that doesn’t sound harsh. I think what you really want to know is if he thinks this can be what you want. And i think you know that answer.
As far as the making him “work” for it, I’m not sure what he’s “working” for? Sex? I think you want that as well so you could stop having sex with him but I don’t think that’s going to make him want a R. Which is what you want and that is a good thing. He’s just not that guy.
I hope I didn’t sound heartless. This just seems straight forward to me. And yes, I’ve been there as most of us have where we wanted something the other person didn’t. It’s painful and su$&y. It feels like rejection and that’s a horrible feeling.
Hang in there. Xo
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
Im sorry ginger. I have always said if i was a guy, i would be smart enough to go for you. If my brothers were single, i would strongly encourage them to pursue you. Because they would be so lucky to have a girl like you.
But Most men (maybe there is a rare exception) are not going for the girl that would end up making their lives better. They are not going for the women that make them dinners from scratch. They are not going for the women that want to please them and cater to them. Instead they pursue women that are not a sure thing. That are demanding and entitled. The nicer you are, the less value you get. Betty was smart and beautiful, but they all chased after Veronica. They are all going for women that are not truly available. These boards alone are proof.
I know you dont want to play the game. But maybe just dont work so hard until they proove their worthiness to you. Why did you go out of your way for HC? You are very busy. What made him worthy of the time and expense it takes to prepare a 3 course dinner?
You teach people how to treat you.
I think double standards do exist. Its our reality. We dont like to hear it cause rationally its not fair. But that doesnt mean its not out there. For me. I would not feel comfortable sleeping with a guy, unless i knew i was highly valued by him. Not having an exclusive relationship means i am not valued enough, hence i am not gonna share myself with him that way. What do i get out of it? I think thats how you have to think... "what do i get out of it?"
