WW-is there hope? Any advise from former WW's

[LANE777]

you're right Steve
She walked out and now has become WW.



As I read through these forums I can see that my W is def WW. 3 months ago she was so loving, non selfish. Today I can call and she would answer but it would be a 2 min tops conversation. And it would only be about kids or all business like.
She just texted me wanting to know what the deductibles are on a car I just bought her 2 weeks before she left. She needs the info for the lienholder. But still, I haven't had a solid convo for 2 weeks now. When we are together its with our family for a short time. I'm very neutral and act like I'm doing great. I feel like she sees right through me. She will not look at me in the eye either. I really need to figure out what to do from here.
She is staying at her parents with no real worries. She acts like her life is so much better since she left. She is happy and tells me that her co workers say she is the happiest she has ever looked. I'm very strong around my kids and take very good care of them and tell them I love them all the time. However, I am broken inside. I see that I need to GAL
and she will realize that I have probably move on. But I'm the nice guy thinking if I wait it out it will all fall into place. I also think my self to death. Sometimes I think.."she is making the biggest mistake of her life and she will regret all of this" am I right?

[WillD78]

Hey, man. I hear ya. Sometimes I get lost in my own head, and it's just awful. That's why you gotta GAL. The more time I spend on here reading everyone's heartbreaking stories or even their success stories, the more I need to get out and do something. Even just going on a 30-minute walk helps immensely. Keep your mind on your self-improvement and your kids and I think you will find that your mood improves and it is easier to interact with W. At least that is what I have found. Wishing you success!

[AndrewP]

Sometimes I think.."she is making the biggest mistake of her life and she will regret all of this" am I right?

Yep - you are right. That is what you are thinking. She's not at this point.

My friend exquisitetobe posted this to me earlier this week. Something to think on for you perhaps Lane777

think about it Andrew..

Your ex left with the milk man.. or should we say/ the milk man left with a married woman. hummm??.. that is a fact they both have to deal with. I am pretty sure it is in the back of their minds once in awhile.

Her affair started roughly 3 years ago. Bomb-day for me was a bit over 2 years ago. In the many stories I've read here and elsewhere, spouses who have affairs sometimes "win" and go off to a lovely sparkly life. In a number of cases like with perhaps my ex things don't turn out the way that they hope. That doesn't mean that they come back. The path home from infidelity requires either courage and humility or a sense of entitlement. Many don't have the mental fortitude to walk the first path. Those who walk the second are at high risk to dash off again.

Do they actually feel regret? In those dark hours when they are alone with the choices they have made? If what I've heard through the grapevine is true, yes my ex-wife does have regrets. But they are regrets about the impact of her choices on her. Not on those who were left behind.

If you look around here, there are indeed stories where the wandering lamb has found it's way back to the fold. For those whose situation is so dire that they have ended up here on an online peer support forum it is rare. PsySara might be a recent example of one of those. Gordie is one whose situation is still in doubt even though his wife has returned to him after a fashion.

I don't mean to be a downer. I just want to give you my - perhaps somewhat cynical - point of view that the odds are long.

A very wise man who used to be here but passed on a while ago called Jack_Three_Beans gave me this piece of wisdom. I miss him an awful lot. He was - if you will pardon the pun - a giant of a man to me.

So about that pride thing.

Here is my horrible secret.

Cavet first.

I was going to be a better person no matter the outcome of this. I knew it. Even if she didn't come out of her MLC...I would be great.

Here is the horrible pride part.

I had a saying I used often. I'm not certain if I am going to say it 100% correctly.

Whether it is a 1 in 100 chance of saving your marriage or a 1 in 1,000,000,000 chance of saving your marriage it doesn't matter the end number, what matters is the first number.
Be the 1.

My sin was knowing that I would be the 1. That was my pride.

Let it be yours.

[LANE777]

Andrew,
This is a good post for me to read. As this is all fresh and probably like yourself years ago never thought in a million years that you'd be going through this. Right now you're right, I have all these hopes that it will all turn out and she will wander back. Today, I need to stop waiting around for her to change her mind by herself. She found someone else that will only fulfill a few things. Of course I hope her fantasy dreams come crashing down soon and then my fantasy is she comes back and I get to make a choice...right? wishful thinking.

Right now I really think I need to detach some how. With 4 young kids it will be very difficult. But she knows I am waiting for her. She knows that I be a pursue. I don't want to say anything to her. I feel like I just need to start GAL on my life...but scared to death of letting go after a 17 year marriage. I have to remember she doesn't want to be with me right now and there's nothing I can say or really do for her to change her mind. I am at the end of the road and she wants the D.

What do you think about the fact that she has Kidney failure going on right now? She still goes to work for now. But she is on the List to get a kidney. We have a few friends that are getting tested for a match. Either way she has along road ahead of her. She asked if I would be there to support her. It was a weak moment but I said of course I would do everything I could. Now the OM. The only thing I know about him is he is single, he is a co worker and 5 years younger. What would he see in a 38 year old married woman with 4 kids and a serious health issue? He must be hard up but everyone says it will never last!! So I wait...or go detach mode.

Her side of the family usually plans a week camping trip the end of Aug. This year no one could do it. My sister has a cabin that can fit a few families. So my wife asked if we and her family could do a weekend instead of the camp trip. I agreed and set it up. Then she says she wants divorce but the trip is still on. It feels like HELL doing things when I'm stuck thinking were still married to a loveable wife but in reality she is a distant cold stranger right now. But maybe that will give me the opportunity to act like I've moved on etc. who knows?

[LANE777]

I ordered the books today. I hope they help. Ive read a lot of forums and can see there is a lot of broken hearts in this world. I hate that there is so many. My marriage was solid so I thought. It seems that everywhere I go there is another
broken home. Its on television as a normal event. I am a religious guy and know that Satan number 1 target is the family and he got mine and all of yours. I will not give up the fight but realize I have to be strategic and listen and the #1 thing I will need is patience. I really appreciate the support and glad I chime in on others posts to give them support. I will need a lot of strength to detach from the love of my life. But I need her to wake up from her silly dream and realize she has a family that will love her more than anyone could. My S6 just told me that were not a family anymore and it broke my heart. He said we are 2 families now that live in 2 diff houses. If she could hear that she would..well never mind she isn't thinking clear right now. Pray for me and I will pray for you. Thanks for any support and words of encouragement. I know nothing is guaranteed but you gotta stay positive.

[SteveLW]

LANE, coming here to respond to your last message in equalzr's thread. I wrote this last week. It seemed to fit in with what you were sharing in equalzr's thread. Hope it helps:

It Didn't Start On Bomb Day
a DBing Dissertation by Steve85

I thought I would post a treatise on a phenomenon so many DB newbies struggle with. And that is the thought or idea that their sitch began on BD.

This is patently false. The truth is that for most WAWs (and presumably WAHs though they tend to be a bit more impulsive) the sitch started long before BD. Most anti-divorce experts suggest that for most WAWs the exit strategy started about 2 years prior to BD. (Sitches can be different, for instance in my sitch I initiated BD, so it happened a bit quicker than in most sitches.)

MWD describes this as the point the WAW gave up on the MR. But she doesn't tell her H. Instead she just stops trying and that manifests in her stopping complaining. MWD points out that this is exactly what the STB LBH was wanting all alone, so he feels great. She isn't nagging him about how bad of a H he is anymore, or how bad their M is. He thinks "she's finally happy!"

Oh contraire!

In fact, she is more miserable than ever because now she feels stuck. From the day she gives up she is now planning her exit strategy. Most WAWs, at that early point, do not even know what the strategy is yet, but just that they are on the lookout for finding the quickest, easiest, least painful way to exit.

This up to 2 year period is a very dangerous time for the WAW. This is when she is most susceptible to an OM's charms. When you feel stuck, and you no longer feel in love with your H, OM, just about any OM that shows interest, seems like a better option. And this is why for the WAW EAs and PAs are so common. A lot of newbies think, "her EA/PA led her to being a WAW." In reality, it was her being in a walkaway mindset that led to her EA/PA.

The key takeaway from this is that she has been in this mindset for up to 2 years! It is usually due to laziness, or denial, or a combination of the two that the LBH spouse completely misses the fact that his W is no longer trying. This is also why on BD a WAW will often claim that they tried to tell their H how unhappy they were for years but that the LBH just wouldn't listen. He immediately thinks back to the up to two years prior and insists she never said anything! In reality, she tried for a longtime prior to finally giving up. This is where this dichotomy often occurs. She is talking about PRIOR to giving up, he is thinking about the 2 years leading up to BD where she never complained. They are both right, in a way.

Missing The Warning Signs

During this up to two year giving up period, the STB LBH misses a lot of warning signs. I remember in my sitch, almost exactly a year before BD, I was in the kitchen with my W. I was complaining about how dirty the floor was. And the dishes piled in the sink. She looked at me and said "We should never have gotten married."

Things had been so good for the weeks leading up to that, other than my complaining about the lack of housework she was doing, that I blew it off. She waved a huge red flag in my face, and I just laughed it off. I put it out of my head even, until a year later, when BD hit.

Maybe you can look back at the weeks, months and even years that led up to your BD and think about the red flags you missed. The little comment here, or the rolling of the eyes there. Maybe she started spending more time alone in some activity in another part of house. Maybe she shutdown instead of engaging in disagreements. Maybe she got so far to the edge of your bed when you were in bed together that you thought there was no way she wouldn't fall out of it.

Red flags during this period are everywhere. And they get worse over time. Especially when an EA and/or PA start. And she gets secretive with her phone. She no longer undresses in front of you. Affection trickles down to barely a peck on the cheek or a side hug. And yet we STB LBHs are clueless. Blind to the red flags that are waving everywhere. Until finally BD.

BD Isn't The Beginning, It Is The Beginning Of The End

One of the biggest mistakes LBHs make immediately after BD is to start behaving in ways that we should have behaved long before BD. And this is why it is important to realize a simple truth: Your sitch did not begin on BD.

If you begin to behave as if BD is the beginning of your marital problems, you will be doomed to failure. Begging, pleading, pledging, promising, pursuing, being affectionate, opening doors for her, buying her gifts, hanging on her every word, following her around the house, waiting on her hand and foot, not complaining about lack of housework, speaking her love language, employing the love dare, kissing her hello, kissing her goodbye, trying to sit close to her, trying to put your arm around her, trying to hold her hand, trying to hug her, trying to snuggle in bed, cooking for her, taking her out on dates, taking her out to eat, cleaning up after her, doing the laundry, cleaning the kitchen, cleaning the bathrooms, vacuuming, sweeping, dusting........................................

None of that works after BD. All of that would have worked wonders 2 years prior to BD. It may have even worked a year before BD. Maybe even 6 months prior. But at some point before BD that ship sailed Usually it was after she was in the emotional or physical grips of an OM. But regardless, she is no longer open to physical touch, acts of service, words of encouragement, spending time with her, or any other act of pressure or pursuit.

Thinking BD is the start of your sitch is why DBing techniques seem counter-productive to newbies. After all, if you feel in your gut that BD is the first time you are awakened to the problems in your MR, then the intuitive thing to do is the list above.

The problem is that you have to see it from her perspective. She gave up on you. She started moving on from you emotionally and physically. She finally got to the point where she was ready to drop the bomb on you. Where she tells you she is done, ILYBIANILWY, that she needs space. And the LBH's first instinct to smother her with the above list of things, and many more pursuits and pressures not listed there.

It is like trying to climb into a cage with an animal that is already too big for the cage. The outcome of that is going to just be bad.

If you view post-BD from the perspective that she has been done with the MR for up two years prior to BD then it becomes easier to realize that the above list isn't going to work. And once a LBH comes to that realization they also realize that they have to try a different approach.

Those that struggle with detachment the most are those that cannot or will not see that perspective. They are determined to love, pursue, date, slave, and convince her to change her mind. But none of that will work. Truly detaching, letting her go, and giving her the space she asked for is the only chance the LBH really has of potentially turning his sitch around. To pursue and pressure is to push her out of the MR, into a D, and potentially into the arms of the OM.

Your sitch started up to two years prior to BD. She has been coming to terms with ending your M, breaking her vows, giving up on her core beliefs and values, causing you and others pain, and completely turning lives on their heads for months, if not years. The time for words, and pursuit and pressure are over. After BD the only action the LBH can take is to step aside, and let her go. To work on themselves through GAL and 180s. Become the person and a spouse only a fool would leave. And maybe, just maybe, the WAW will at some point take notice, change their mind, and return to a new and improved MR.

Fix your perspective to one of BD NOT being the beginning, and maybe it won't be the beginning of the end.

[LANE777]

Steve,
Thanks for sending this to me. It really has sunk in. My wife has probably been checked out fora at least 2 years. A few weeks ago she was out with the OM. My daughter went to go see her and she wasn't there of course. She called and W told her that she was tired and want to go to bed. My daughter said uuuhhh Im in your room. The W replied that she would have to visit in the morning and that she was busy. My D was heart broken and waited until 1:30 am. She never showed up and so she came home. While she was waiting for 4 hours she saw a journal on the Ws night stand. She found and entry. My D felt horrible for reading her journal but was mad at her. The journal read that she had seen this guy like 2 years ago at work and knew she wanted to get to know him. She was like a teenager writing about a crush. Talked about his beautiful beard and how it made her heart flutter and it was a breath of fresh air and how something inside her was awakened that she thought was dead and she was hiding her feeling or putting them off. So yeah...your dead right! It all starts way sooner...I feel like a moron for not picking up on any of it. So here I am.

[LANE777]

Thanks Will...I read your forum and I feel like some of us are married to the same person...they at least share the same brain..jk. I look forward to seeing your progress. Thanks for chiming in...I know people genuinely care and want to see happiness. It's not a misery love company forum from what I see.

[LANE777]

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[Cadet]

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