Affair, no feelings...is there hope? V

[44tries]

Here are a couple of things to consider. If you feel things have steadily improved since the day at the theme park, and you have seen nothing to indicate she is secretly texting, then to ask for proof at this point could possibly send her back to the other bedroom. This improved behavior may be all smoke and mirrors, but I based on her previous MO, I rather doubt it...….if she has sincerely changed as much as you try to make us believe. In other words, if you feel OM is out of the picture, than don't have a conversation. If you see her reverting back to sneaky behavior, then ask to see her messages, that she's not texting some other guy (not just the 19 yr old, but any guy). If you find her repeating old sneaky habits, don't ask her if the EA is over, and don't refer to the 19 yr old. If she's texting a new guy, it would be too easy for her to deflect from it by telling you the EA with 19 yr old was over.

Okay this really helps reassure me I am thinking along the right lines. I'm very confident she is not texting other guys since that trip. Of course, without proof, no one can say 100%, but I'm comfortable trusting this assumption for now. And I know what to look for and how to respond if it recurs.

Many people these days believe it is fine to have close friendships with the opposite sex. When it excludes the spouse, I think it becomes very threatening to the MR. If she doesn't have any female friends, and if all her friends are her co-workers (and most are men), it could be an easy trap for her. I would think the military offers counseling to couples. Whether or not she'd listen to a counselor, or even be willing to cooperate......is anyone's guess.

I understand completely. Especially since she is in the military, she is surrounded by a lot of men as females are the minority. Fortunately, she is not the flirty type and for the most part I am not too uneasy, but it's certainly an easy trap as you said. They do offer counseling, I'll have to look into more about the details, and obviously get her on board. I think I can get her there, actually. Not sure how long it will take, but I see it as achievable.

As long as you see no previous behavior that indicates she is hiding something, and as long as she continues to show respectful behavior......then I would not bring up the subject of the A, at this time. One reason is b/c you let it slide that day in the theme park and all this time has past since then...….so unless you see her acting sneaky again, or you have doubts about it......then why bring it up now, when she's returned to sleeping in your bed, etc.? That's not to say there won't be another incident and you'll need to address it then, but we are talking about right now. On the other hand, you may be a person who needs to know she is committed to the MR before you have sex with her. That's your decision. I just doubt she's going to voluntarily tell you she's committed, due to her stubbornness.

This is incredibly helpful, thank you. On the sex issue, that's such a huge part of the problem that I don't think those things (commitment and sex) are separate for me. Her wanting to have sex with me is something I am concerned about and am okay being patient with, but I don't want to end up trapped in a sexless situation.

I think commitment is what you really want from her. You'd like to hear those words from her, so you could relax and the two of you could live happily ever after. I don't think she'll say those words. Unless she received some excellent counseling and she was able to understand your needs, and the importance of her willingness, I don't think she'll say it. I think she'll just ease back into life with you, similar to how she eased back into sleeping in your bed. Yes, of course, she used the excuse of your parents visiting...….and she just continued after they left. No explanation, no conversation, and no commitment. Isn't that usually how she operates in most things, or am I wrong? If I were her, I'd probably see it as being easier than discussing it and dragging up the old stuff again. It common for the WW to want to put everything behind them and just pick up with up and start from "here" in their M. Plus, she's probably not ready for you to corner her about a commitment. This way is a smoother transfer back into the MBR, for her. Now, as to how genuine her feelings are...….I simply don't know. You have to decide if you are okay at this point....and if you can take a day at a time. If you are, and you see things progressing...….then go with it. If things start falling back, then you can discuss what to do.

Again, so so helpful. You are right--I do want commitment. If we are going to be married and she wants to buy a house, etc, I don't think it's normal to not feel a need for commitment. But that is something I question, because I wonder if my expectations are off. But it is extremely helpful to hear you say that it is actually normal for her to want to just ease back into life with me. You are right on the money about her using excuses and being non-open about it--yes, that is precisely how she usually operates. As long as it isn't a huge red flag, I'm okay with that. I don't need the grand gesture and I can take things a day at a time. My only concern is, this feels the same way it did a year ago when she initiated a mini-crisis and then it blew over without a word. I don't want to be in a cycle where she is never truly happy or satisfied and stays wayward, etc.

Sometimes it sounded a little like you were thinking she was suppose to have a period of bad behavior, so that's why I wanted to make sure we were on the same page. As I said, I think IC for her and MC for both of you, would do wonders for your MR. Without her getting IC, I think her stubbornness will be the destructive force in this relationship. I googled the word, stubbornness, and found......"dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something. Reading the synonyms sounded like reading waywardness. So, stubbornness is very intertwined in the wayward mindset. If she has been this stubborn most of her life, it would take a lot of motivation to change, IMHO. It can be done...….if she wants it. But things like telling you she is committed and wants the MR forever, etc. goes against her what I call "stubborn pride". My stubborn pride held me back a long time. It's terrible and it prevents true remorse & humbleness. I don't think I was anything comparable to your W, but I was older and may have had many more years of resentment stored, than she does.....IDK. Neither do I know what emotional baggage she may have brought into the MR that plays a part in her stubbornness. Again, this is where IC might be able to help her.

YES. You get it. It is honestly a major root of the problem. I hope I can get her to do IC.

Well, it's usually a little more complexed. I think she has to feel respect for you, in order to restore her sexual attraction. But let me point out something very important. Without her feeling remorse for her bad behavior and willing to cooperate in doing what is necessary to have a good MR...…..I think her ill treatment toward you will rear its ugly head frequently, b/c she's got to tear down those walls of selfishness and stubbornness. It's difficult for me to try to divide all of this into levels or steps. It all blends and works together.

The WW ends her affair, and then goes through affair withdrawals. The H requires respectful behavior from her, and in time, her feelings of disrespect begin to diminish and adoration begins to build..….which leads to sexual desire for her H. This usually softens her attitude and overall interactions with him, causing her to be more affectionate, and even feminine (especially if there is male dominance in their relationship). The extreme short cut version would be to say that she falls in love with her H, and that causes her to be motivated to work on the MR. However, I think this period of time varies with each case, and every WW has her own issues that must be resolved. That's not to say she can't work on them while the relationship progresses. See what I mean? It's like surgery, in some cases, and it takes time to cut away the cancer. Sometimes, treatment is required, and it takes time to completely heal. It's just not an overnight process.

This is a great illustration that helps me understand.

I realize you are uncomfortable. All of this is tiring to you. Your NGS is screaming for you to settle back into your old accommodating patterns. Just understand something. If/When you do...….all her acts of disrespect returns with it. IDK how long you can give her time to work through her issues. There is no way to place a calendar date on things of this nature. IDK if she even realizes she has issues that need to be resolved. I really think IC could help her to identify some things in herself and how to work on them, and how to work with her spouse. In other words, she needs outside help. Depending on her level of waywardness (which stubbornness will be the main enemy) as to her willingness to seek help. Most couples do not enter into a relationship knowing one thing about how to make it work. Oh, they think they know, and most think that their MR will be different, yada, yada...…..but they are unprepared to deal with the day to day stuff that erodes the pipes to their loving feelings toward each other, and it starts breaking down. Becoming informed and getting the tools, is vital. Getting professional help to heal the issues that exist is smart, IMHO.

Just what I needed to hear and be reminded of. A major pillar of positivity is that she is expressing a lot of motivation to better herself and her life. I believe she does realize she has issues she needs to work on and she has the desire to do so--and in a lot of ways has already begun.


Things are still moving in a positive direction. But I can see how her behavior with rear its head. I am running into a problem where she has started saying I am constantly assuming she is doing/saying something with bad intentions. I don't know if there is actually a problem with the way I am communicating and not tolerating disrespect, or if she is just pushing back to not having her way without resistance.

We took a last minute camping trip to celebrate my birthday. It was a blast and bucket list type trip. The only time we had any issues was when she felt I was overly critical. I am reflecting on my attitude and words and refocusing on myself and making sure I'm the spouse only a fool would leave. I think if I stick to the core principles I have been following since the beginning, things will keep progressing positiviely. Like Sandi mentioned, the biggest battle will be not settling back into old patterns and making sure the new ways stick.