Quote: Oddly enough, this is how I met Trish (Cycler). Her H is a crazymaker, and we managed to help each other.
I know she still lurks, so I'll ask her to jump in. Until she does, I'll give you a synopsis of things that she did that worked.
When he tried to engage her in his attempts, she would shut him down... by responding rather than reacting, and doing the total opposite of what she did before that invited her to play out his drama du jour.
Pretty soon, his attempts were being thwarted by not giving him what he wanted. If the other person is not joining in the drama, pretty soon the drama fizzles out. Just consider yourself a firefighter, walking around constantly with a pail of water, broom and dustpan....
I need to jump in here...
I hate to throw a wrench into the works here, BUT, I need to tell you my own experience.
My H NEVER responded to my crazymaking. He doesn't like to argue, so he would just walk away. This would make me crazier! I would follow him and yell more. He would still ignore this. Finally, I would calm down, and usually cry and say I was sorry. We would then have sex. Yes, Briget, make-up sex is awesome! Now, for years I did this. The payoff was that I got the closeness I was looking for in the end.
However, my H suffered in silence.
Bring us to now. The suffering in silence couldn't continue. Oh, he's quiet, but only because he cannot talk about this time in our lives yet. He is still so full of resentment that he can't get through a sentence about it!
He took that treatment because he felt he deserved it. Now he realizes that he didn't, and that I beat him down every chance I got.
So, I wish it were as simple for me as having him not respond.
The response now hurts far worse than the fighting back would have.
Quote: she just wants to be HEARD and UNDERSTOOD. I realize that you will never understand hormones, etc., but just to feel validated is sometimes what I feel like screaming for.
[snip]
Walking away to me is the WORST thing my h could do (that just reinforces the fear of abandonment and would REALLY REALLY make me freak out.) Perhaps if you can say something like, "i see that you are upset. If you can *fill in the blank-de-escalate*, I will talk with you. If not, then I think we need to separate for a little while so you can *chill* PC: sort out what you are thinking/feeling." If I hear, "calm down," I only get more infuriated.
But, sometimes h can ask me, "don't you think you are being irrational/making this a bigger deal than it is?" and I can calm MYSELF down and say yes and *try* to be more rational. (But, this took us a long time!!) slowly, slowly, keep swimming, keep swimming...
karen812
Wow Karen,
You have described me totally!
Pam
"We must be willing to let go of the life we had planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us"
Notice I said "shut him down". For Trish, that meant doing something different. Not walking away, but doing something different than she did in the past (which was to engage with him fully).
Had your H done something different, YOU would have responded differently.... right?
That's how you close a crazymaker down.
I never got a chance to test this theory since I figured this out before he did. Ironically, he walked out, so this makes him and your H pretty similar.
And correct me if I'm wrong: you are no longer heading down that cheeseless tunnel to get your H to engage with you. Right? That makes you reformed, Pam.
Since I'm Phoebe, I'm changing the tune now. My next statement is going to be about me now.
Mr. Wonderful is coming over tonight with the girls, and we're having game night. Yes, I invited him. And yes, he accepted without hesitation.
Can I hear a GO ME?
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Quote: O.K., BUT I doubt that there was anything my H could have done differently to stop me. I was bound and determined to "win." Whatever that meant.
What an honest answer! And since you started this honesty kick, I will admit that doing something different probably wouldn't have worked for me either. Thank goodness we married long suffering men.
I can't let him win!!!! You see, Mr. Wonderful likes playing games with me (and D10) because I make him think. He doesn't like a woman who gives it away. Can I say here that Phoebe is not easy???
I'll make a promise, though: I promise if I win, I'll be really gracious and offer one more game so he can beat my pants off. OOOHHH, did I say that?
If we play Sorry or Life, there is little skill. That's easy. However, if we play cribbage (which we're contemplating teaching D10 tonight), he's gonna whomp my a$$. He's way better at it than I am. So maybe I'll suggest it so he and his masculine pride can be restored to good health?
Or I can always suggest strip poker?
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Aha! The old let him beat the pants off of you trick! Betsey, you are just too smart for words.
I find it amusing that you may be sitting down to play the game of life! What the hell have we been doing up 'til now? Ah, if it were only as easy as a simple spin of a wheel....
Anyway, have a great evening! I just found out I'm being bombarded with teenagers. It was so much quieter when S17 and S15 were on Spring Break!!!
Thanks for the insight about the c-maker H. He is more subtle than many of the stories here (though they describe my MIL very well!). And until the bomb, my method was to offer solutions or support H in the situations he created. C-making was in the other world, not in our M. It was more a form of sabotage, afraid of succeeding so creating the drama to stir things up, equalize them down to his comfort zone. This is my take, one with which he might well disagree.
I'm not suggesting my H doesn't want to be happy. Oh! He does. He just doesn't seem to know what will give him that feeling... and by that I mean the what inside him.
I've done things differently. Initially, I went full-on in engaging him. Then as things got more settled, I settled in. Got used to it. Disengaged sometimes.
Now... here is the part where I dispense with the gender myths. My H just wanted to be SEEN, HEARD, & UNDERSTOOD. All his life. Not just in our M, but before, during and in this weird place we're now in, too. He hates to be ignored. And so do I. Walking away is the worst thing in the world to me... to my H, I suspect (but do not know) that it is a coping mechanism he uses when he feels he's being ignored, not heard, not getting through.
It's not a W thing. We ALL want these things!
Like Merrick, I gave it and it was thrown back in my face more often than not. So then I tried something different. Each one worked for a while. Then it didn't work anymore. This is when I realized that H doesn't know where he stands or why, and try as I might, I can't make him know those things, only give a subtle influence here and there. Make him think. His conclusions are his own.
So... then I wonder, what is the response that will bring us closer together? It does seem to be a moving target. He thinks my changes are great. Then I wonder, is making a moving target part of c-making behavior?
Merrick, do you think your W is AFRAID that her M could work, and that will require a lot of face-saving and backtracking from all of what she's been saying and doing? Just a thought I had.
Quote: Merrick, do you think your W is AFRAID that her M could work, and that will require a lot of face-saving and backtracking from all of what she's been saying and doing? Just a thought I had.
Absolutely. The first time I knew I was in true danger of losing it all is when she told a few close friends that she wanted to separate or consider divorce. Just saying the words was a huge step for her and telling these friends was her equivalent of crossing the Rubicon. I honestly feel the "torture" she claims of being trapped by me is not so much my actions as an H, but the daily reminder of her conscience or the counterblance to all the reasons she has constructed to leave.
to be more rational. (But, this took us a long time!!) slowly, slowly, keep swimming, keep swimming...
