I'm not sure if any of you will remember WillWin and his 'Gopher Dance'.
In my view, the clapping arfing seal thing is just an alternative to his Gopher Dance!
When used as a reward for good accomplishments, I think it's a powerful tool.
Heck, that's why Weight Watchers works for me. There is just something so empowering about having a room full of people clap for you when you've dropped 5 pounds.
It really helps me keep going.
I suspect that when someone is talking about the arfing seals, they mean it in a negative way...probably because it's not in response to something the person did well or accomplished.
But like I said, when I've EARNED the snaps, it just tickles me and makes me feel good.
i have to interject a question here - how much is "crazymaking" related to "controlling" - sometimes i feel i am a crazymaker, but other times i realize it's only a controlling personality - i don't like to think of myself as controlling, but i know i am, so maybe i like to lean towards the "crazymaking" cause it sounds a bit better ya know?
have you folks dived into that discussion about the relationship between the two? if so, just direct and i will read
In my opinion, Crazy Making is just a more 'dramatic' form of controlling.
For instance, someone might buy tickets for them and their spouse, and say, we are going.
That to me, is a straight method of controlling.
Crazy making in my opinion...would be my husband goes out with friends.
I pretend like nothing is wrong for 2 days. Then when he asks me a question, I burst into tears and say, "You don't love me." or something equally dramatic and unfair.
We have approached that discussion, though the location of it would be hard to pinpoint! We’ve also taken a stab at the question of whether crazymaking was a passive-aggressive behavior. The outcome of both questions was ‘no’.
Crazymaking means drama addiction. Creating drama and chaos is our drug. We do it when we’re bored. We do it when we need to achieve control. We do it when we aren’t receiving what we need from our partner. We do it when we’re fearful. We do it when we’re under stress. Control is a bullet point that falls under the crazymaking header for sure, but it isn’t a synonym for it.
Control for me was one of the main things that I stopped to examine, because I too have a controlling personality. So one of the largest challenges in this battle was to end the control. But, ending control won’t end crazymaking until we end the drama.
I could easily control my H into telling me that he loved me by walking up to him and saying, “tell me you love me”. If that didn’t work, I could try saying, “tell me you love me or else ____”. But crazymaking is not that direct. As a crazymaker, I wouldn’t TELL my husband to tell me that he loves me, I’d create some drama and some chaos in effort to force him to see all that I do for him and that, in fact, he loves me. It sounds silly and irrational, and in practice, it usually was. Because you don’t generally feel a lot of love for someone standing in front of you screaming to high heaven!
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
ok, drama, that pretty much better describes it. meredith, i liked the way you said that control is a sub of crazymaking, but not a synonym, that made sense to me
alas, i am mainly a control freak...
well, i knew that all along...altho i do believe at times in my marriage i did play the crazymaking game, only during those times when i threatened to leave my husband when we were fighting, that sure was DRAMA
lol - to look back at that person, who was she????
Wow, this is great...well, and not so great. Great that you all have insight and have changed your ways. Not so great when I think about a lot of the stupid fights I have started, accusations, and scenes made in public. Ick, ick ick!!!
I crazymake b/c I am bored, I want some attn., I want reassurance, and I want to see that h will put up with one of my fits AGAIN (boy, he must really love me if he let me do that to him and he is still here!). However, h no longer reassures me. He, like another aforementioned h, gave up saying that it doesn't matter what he does or says b/c it's never enough, or I don't believe him, and that he's tired of being blamed and accused of being someone that he is not.
At this point, I cannot ask him for any reassurances or ask him to tell me he loves me, etc. He got so tired of me trying to control him and he says, "would you rather I do it because I want to or because you told me to??" So, he keeps telling me that I need to be patient with him which I am not.
But, on the other hand, do any of you freak out b/c things are going WELL?? For instance, you don't believe that it will last, it's too good to be true, you don't want to be taken advantage of/for granted/for a fool??? I deliberately sabotage my r w/him b/c of these reasons. UG-and I'll get exactly what I am afraid of.
When h threatened to leave, I was motivated, then it seemed that i got lazy b/c he wasn't saying that anymore and he's still with me. *That's really not a good reason to be motivated, is it??* I DO want to get better for me.
I live in constant fear and anxiety. Lord, I am afraid he will be attracted to another woman in the room. I am being completely honest as silly/irrational I may sound, but I've been trying to get over this forever (happened in all previous serious r's), and I NEED to GET OVER IT!!
Thanks for being here. got a meeting to go to... karen812
Remember that we are addicted to chaos and drama? So, of course we would get a little bored when things are going along smoothly! Us crazymakers, we like a good challenge!
However, we also want security. Most of us do not feel secure in the best of times. And when things are going good, we may be just a little wary of getting comfortable and we wait for the next bomb to blow. Strangely enough, our spouses are waiting for the same thing, for OUR bomb to blow. And usually, it does. Because we can't handle calm! We're afraid of getting comfortable and having our world blown to bits...so if we keep things in a state of chaos, we're safe. Well, at least we perceive ourselves as safe.
So Karen, you’ve admitted that there is a problem. For your own journaling sake, can you tell us when you crazymake and what you want the payoff to be?
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
I've said this a few dozen times here on the BB...
Quote: But, on the other hand, do any of you freak out b/c things are going WELL?? For instance, you don't believe that it will last, it's too good to be true, you don't want to be taken advantage of/for granted/for a fool??? I deliberately sabotage my r w/him b/c of these reasons.
Even if that were to be the case, why on earth would you feel it was a reflection of you? If you offer trust and other admirable virtues to others, but they disrespect them... that is a reflection of them, NOT YOU!
I can assure you that I've proven my love and everything that it entails to Mr. Wonderful in a variety of ways over the past year. I've put myself in a vulnerable spot, I've been honest with him, and I've done it for love--he seems to appreciate it too! If he chooses the path that doesn't include me, does this mean I'm a fool?
Does the rest of the world view me as a fool? If they do, so be it. But I CHOOSE to think that they now see me through different glasses: I was patient, kind, understanding and lovable to someone who often did not return them back to me. This makes HIM the fool, not me.
This process isn't about making everything fit in its proper place for neatness sake or to get what we want in the way we wanted.
Sage made a point yesterday about the fact that we all learn at different speeds and process things differently. Well, we were applying this to each other on the BB, but the fact is it's true for our spouses too. We simply ARE different and we GET things on unique timetables.
I see your fear of getting what you want as a huge obstacle. Why is it so important that your H follows your rules? Has that worked in the past? I'm gonna guess not. (Mine didn't.) Why not allow the process to take control rather than you?
I promise you I have no lasting scars or wounds from giving up the reins. It's actually been nice to live in a tide of tranquility, where I'm not working against myself all the time (which was usually the case).
The only person who makes this process harder than it should be is us. And I'd be willing to make a very large wager that most of it is resisting the changes we know very well we MUST make but are looking for every alternative out there before doing the hard work.
Picture it this way:
Life just is. I make some godawful storm, put my canoe in the raging waters and then navigate the rapids, hoping I'll reach safe ground at some point. You could congratulate me for doing such a great job handling the canoe... but why should you? You saw me stir up the pot and turn calm weather into nasty weather. What is admirable about that?
Nasty weather should just happen when it happens. There is NO need to force it along. Just enjoy being. I promise you learning how to do this is a much better option than trying to teach your H and yourself how to deal with you.
I hope this makes sense!!!
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
