I think we are living through very similar situations and emotions and our timelines are very close. Right now I am living through a period of beating myself up a good bit. I see what an emotional leach I was, and I can understand why that would be unattractive and repulsive to anyone. I think it is important to recognize those deficiencies, because otherwise how are we going to correct them? The trick is in recognizing these problems and addressing them without self-flagellating excessively. If you are like me it is way too easy to fall into wallowing in depression or self-pity.
While going through that process it is hard to recognize that W is going through her own issues, and has her own problems. Her unhappiness may be partially related to the negative relationship, but most likely it has deeper roots and she needs to go through her own process of self-evaluation and self-growth. Anyone who walks out on a relationship without making an honest attempt to work through the problems clearly has issues of her own. That isn't a normal or healthy response. Joseph is so right - happiness has to come from within, both for us and for the WAW. She is out there looking for happiness through a new single life - that's a losing strategy. New friends, new activities, new clothes, new relationships, none of that is going to fill the emptiness in her heart, or in ours.
Hang in there. You are worthy.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Joseph, yes I continue to work through accepting that no matter what there may have been nothing I could do in my sitch. W may simply be done and want out. As you say Sh*t happens to good people all the time. If my W does not want the MR, it is what it is. On a side note my middle sister who was telling me she was WW, well last night I got great news. She had spoken with my BIL about being unhappy/her struggles, asked him to work with her by going to IC/MC and he agreed! He did not get angry, validated her feelings...wonderful news! Now they have a long road for sure, BUT they together want to try and save their MR. At least there is real tangible hope for them. I prayed thanks to God for my sister choosing the right path, my BIL for being receptive to IC/MC and most of all that my nephews and neice might still have their family saved and maintained. At the same time, however, I couldn't help ask of God...is my young D not worthy of the same? Why can my W not have the same revelation? I know it was mostly a rhetorical ask, but I couldn't help myself to ask if them, why not my W and I.
As for the rest of your comments, as I have been told many times by many people, a D in my sitch if it comes to that was entirely W's decision. And I've also been told that this entire event is likely not even about me. As you state there are likely within my W core issues within herself that she has not settled or come to terms with. It is tragic beyond words for the two of us to have married, had a beautiful D and then had this happen, but it has.
Davide, thank you buddy! You have been a constant support within my sitch and I very much appreciate you! Actually in your post you say exactly and much better what I was just trying to say to Joseph above. As you said:
"While going through that process it is hard to recognize that W is going through her own issues, and has her own problems. Her unhappiness may be partially related to the negative relationship, but most likely it has deeper roots and she needs to go through her own process of self-evaluation and self-growth. Anyone who walks out on a relationship without making an honest attempt to work through the problems clearly has issues of her own. That isn't a normal or healthy response."
Detachment for both of us is required first from our W's decision and then even a second level detachment must occur regarding what you describe above...separating within ourselves the perceived failures that we brought to the MR from the more deep rooted issues within our W that led to their BD and D decisions.
ballast and Davide, part of the journey through your sitch, while DBing, is that you fully accept your responsibility in contributing to the problems in your MR, and 180 on those. The reason for that is to become better, stronger, and ready for the next R in your life. Whether that is MR 2.0 with your W or whether that is a brand new R with someone else.
The problem is to not allow it to turn into self-pity, wallowing and being depressed about it. Beating yourself up over it does no good! Recognizing your mistakes, and resolving to learn and grow from them IS the key. And start right away. Don't dwell on the mistakes, recognize and take action.
And do it for yourself! Don't do it to try to convince your W to stay. Lasting change isn't to try and manipulate others or to achieve some specific outcome. You make the changes so that you are better moving forward! This is why we constantly talk about being the best you that you can be. Not for any other reason than to be the best you for yourself. (Others will take note, but that isn't the goal.)
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve...yep I've been fully accepting of my part in the MR, unfortunately, I've I'm sure gone too far in blaming myself. For me with my W gone, many of the things I could 180 on, while I recognize how I could have done them differently, I can't execute on them. And then the counterpoint to this all is that, if W did not explain to me the sources of her unhappiness with me and/or W simply did not want to be married anymore, no degree of self reflection on my part may have made a single bit of difference.
As you say best we can do is self-reflect, do the best we can with the information we have to improve ourselves and go forward hopefully as a better, more learned partner in our next R. It is just a very challenging proposition when the one person who can really provide to us those areas that contributed to their unhappiness in being with us in an MR are not talking.
ballast, you are giving her too much power. YOU know you better than anyone else. You don't need her to recognize your weaknesses and work on improving in those areas. Maybe it is easier to hear it from your spouse, but that doesn't mean you should be dependent on that.
Self-discovery is about turning inward not outward. It is about looking at yourself honestly, and asking questions like:
"What did I do that contributed to my W leaving?" "What is it about me that either causes me to have many or few friends?" "How do other people react to me? Is it positive or negative? What is it about me that causes these reactions?"
There are many, many more. And there are follow-up questions too. "What in my past contributes to these behaviors?" "What can I do to make sure I change these things about me?"
In the end, if it becomes too difficult to sort through, get a good IC and work through all of that. The IC will help you look inwardly, not outwardly. And then explore what it is you discover about yourself and ways to change it.
You are going to be better for all of this ballast, if you resolve to be. So make the resolution now to become awesome!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve so I'm definitely invested in introspection of myself. Absence validation of what I perceive to be my faults/failures/etc it feels much more like throwing darts. As I say me laying around watching TV instead of spending time with her, being a procrastinator, etc...all valid things I can change. BUT what if, just flat out one day some OM showed up, swept her off her feet and she was gone/done. Now again all the things I think I did wrong, can improve I do wish to correct for the future, but man look at this board...it's littered with WW/WHs who just took off for EA/PAs. LBH/LBW could have been perfect and yet still their spouse took off.
I'm a good guy, many friends, positively viewed by many, but what if my W just simply said "I don't want to be married/do this anymore" and took off to OM's arms. Should I be introspecting myself to death when simply put it could have had nothing to do with and all to do with her?
You are right on the money that I have to go through the entire process of self-evaluation for ME using MY awareness of my strengths/weaknesses. My only contention with what you say is in sitchs where the W just simply bails out, how does the left behind determine a true weakness/character flaw vs the weakness/flaw actually being in the one who took off?
At this point my W is getting deeper into the specifics of D, although I don't even know for sure based on what she says if she has even retained an L. I will say this talk and some of the unreasonableness or simply factually wrong information that she has provided has really pushed my detachment to new levels.
You are right on the money that I have to go through the entire process of self-evaluation for ME using MY awareness of my strengths/weaknesses. My only contention with what you say is in sitchs where the W just simply bails out, how does the left behind determine a true weakness/character flaw vs the weakness/flaw actually being in the one who took off?
ballast, so your question is why do the self-examination if your W just simply left without any fault of yours?
First, that would put you in approximately .01% of all cases.
But let's assume for the sake of argument that in your case this is true. How would you ever determine that WITHOUT doing the self-examination. Maybe at the end of the self-discovery you realize "I am awesome and she was stupid to leave me!" Then that would be your answer. I just don't know that you can determine that your W left you for no fault of your own without doing the work of examining self.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve, no definitely not that. For sure I had faults. I'm simply and only saying what if I say it was faults 1-5 whereas W believes "nope it was actually 6-10". We always say no telling what the WW is thinking/feeling and not to try to figure them out. So hypothetically without confirmation from the aggrieved on what we believe our faults were, then we likely may never definitively know.
Yeah i mean your last paragraph is basically what I'm getting at...although for sure none of us are perfect nor fully awesome or without fault. Without the affirmation of the WW what I mean is saying maybe it was just 1-2 things that drove them bonkers...absent that validation many of us could deep end into like 15 things we think we screwed up. The deeper we make our supposed pit of failures, the more dramatically and deeper into self-pity, etc we can fall.
I'm definitely doing the self reflection for myself, but it can be exhausting and absent "knowing" what if I'm barking up the entirely wrong trees fault wise is all.
Very much appreciate your continued discussion on this with me!
ballast, my pleasure! And your point "I'm definitely doing the self reflection for myself, but it can be exhausting and absent "knowing" what if I'm barking up the entirely wrong trees fault wise is all." is a good one. And that is where an IC can be invaluable. WWs would be terrible at this because they'd give you a laundry list, some valid and a lot made up!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You know one thing I can't get over, understand is that now as we are more into discussing D issues, I am constantly being "poked/jabbed" as if I'm the bad guy by W. It really is something to experience it. A friend of mine made a very interesting point to me when he said "once you are gone and done with her...where is she going to go with all of that anger/resentment/frustration she has?"
The change from your closest confidante to someone who despises you so quickly and so much of what they say about you patently and simply not true...really amazing.
