Affair, no feelings...is there hope? V

[sandi2]

FOO = Family of origin

Do you think that I should initiate a discussion and ask if she has ended all contact/demand proof? (still seems that way as of now). Now that I am not hyper worried about everything being in immediate crisis mode, I am running into navigating how to make the tranistion from "the brink" to getting all of my needs clarified and met.

Here are a couple of things to consider. If you feel things have steadily improved since the day at the theme park, and you have seen nothing to indicate she is secretly texting, then to ask for proof at this point could possibly send her back to the other bedroom. This improved behavior may be all smoke and mirrors, but I based on her previous MO, I rather doubt it...….if she has sincerely changed as much as you try to make us believe. In other words, if you feel OM is out of the picture, than don't have a conversation. If you see her reverting back to sneaky behavior, then ask to see her messages, that she's not texting some other guy (not just the 19 yr old, but any guy). If you find her repeating old sneaky habits, don't ask her if the EA is over, and don't refer to the 19 yr old. If she's texting a new guy, it would be too easy for her to deflect from it by telling you the EA with 19 yr old was over.

Many people these days believe it is fine to have close friendships with the opposite sex. When it excludes the spouse, I think it becomes very threatening to the MR. If she doesn't have any female friends, and if all her friends are her co-workers (and most are men), it could be an easy trap for her. I would think the military offers counseling to couples. Whether or not she'd listen to a counselor, or even be willing to cooperate......is anyone's guess.

To be clear (and hopefully this is a big positive), the biggest thing that has changed IS her behavior and respect level. She may not come forward and initiate recommitment talks or verbally discuss much at all, but her behavioral changes are huge. She is choosing to treat me well and doing it consistently. If she says anything that remotely sounds rude or snappy, she catches herself and apologizes and tries to explain what she is feeling, etc. And she knows that if she does cross the line, I'm not letting her get away with it.

Good!

In my mind (and I could be wrong), I view her resentment and unforgiveness, etc that you mention she needs processing time to work through, as the pieces that need to change for her to be truly recommitted feelings wise. I understand she can still make the right choice before that, but sometimes I feel like what you mean by that is mostly just ending the affair (which is certainly a huge and necessary piece, and one that I am pretty confident is mostly in place at this point). She told me she ended it and I can either choose to believe her or demand proof, which brings me back to my above question on your opinion. I know it is my choice, but I am just asking what you would do in my shoes since I value your thoughts highly and you have given a lot of input on this particular topic.

As long as you see no previous behavior that indicates she is hiding something, and as long as she continues to show respectful behavior......then I would not bring up the subject of the A, at this time. One reason is b/c you let it slide that day in the theme park and all this time has past since then...….so unless you see her acting sneaky again, or you have doubts about it......then why bring it up now, when she's returned to sleeping in your bed, etc.? That's not to say there won't be another incident and you'll need to address it then, but we are talking about right now. On the other hand, you may be a person who needs to know she is committed to the MR before you have sex with her. That's your decision. I just doubt she's going to voluntarily tell you she's committed, due to her stubbornness.

I think commitment is what you really want from her. You'd like to hear those words from her, so you could relax and the two of you could live happily ever after. I don't think she'll say those words. Unless she received some excellent counseling and she was able to understand your needs, and the importance of her willingness, I don't think she'll say it. I think she'll just ease back into life with you, similar to how she eased back into sleeping in your bed. Yes, of course, she used the excuse of your parents visiting...….and she just continued after they left. No explanation, no conversation, and no commitment. Isn't that usually how she operates in most things, or am I wrong? If I were her, I'd probably see it as being easier than discussing it and dragging up the old stuff again. It common for the WW to want to put everything behind them and just pick up with up and start from "here" in their M. Plus, she's probably not ready for you to corner her about a commitment. This way is a smoother transfer back into the MBR, for her. Now, as to how genuine her feelings are...….I simply don't know. You have to decide if you are okay at this point....and if you can take a day at a time. If you are, and you see things progressing...….then go with it. If things start falling back, then you can discuss what to do.

Maybe I wasn't very clear with my wording, but I hope I didn't give the impression that I was giving her a period of allowing bad behavior. The period I am talking about is the period where we are "working" on the relationship before she verbally comes out and says she wants to stay with married to me, forever.

Sometimes it sounded a little like you were thinking she was suppose to have a period of bad behavior, so that's why I wanted to make sure we were on the same page. As I said, I think IC for her and MC for both of you, would do wonders for your MR. Without her getting IC, I think her stubbornness will be the destructive force in this relationship. I googled the word, stubbornness, and found......"dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something. Reading the synonyms sounded like reading waywardness. So, stubbornness is very intertwined in the wayward mindset. If she has been this stubborn most of her life, it would take a lot of motivation to change, IMHO. It can be done...….if she wants it. But things like telling you she is committed and wants the MR forever, etc. goes against her what I call "stubborn pride". My stubborn pride held me back a long time. It's terrible and it prevents true remorse & humbleness. I don't think I was anything comparable to your W, but I was older and may have had many more years of resentment stored, than she does.....IDK. Neither do I know what emotional baggage she may have brought into the MR that plays a part in her stubbornness. Again, this is where IC might be able to help her.

I suppose the way it is supposed to work is that as she gains respect and starts treating me differently (already happening), then naturally she will feel motivation to want our MR and change it for the better (right?).

Well, it's usually a little more complexed. I think she has to feel respect for you, in order to restore her sexual attraction. But let me point out something very important. Without her feeling remorse for her bad behavior and willing to cooperate in doing what is necessary to have a good MR...…..I think her ill treatment toward you will rear its ugly head frequently, b/c she's got to tear down those walls of selfishness and stubbornness. It's difficult for me to try to divide all of this into levels or steps. It all blends and works together.

The WW ends her affair, and then goes through affair withdrawals. The H requires respectful behavior from her, and in time, her feelings of disrespect begin to diminish and adoration begins to build..….which leads to sexual desire for her H. This usually softens her attitude and overall interactions with him, causing her to be more affectionate, and even feminine (especially if there is male dominance in their relationship). The extreme short cut version would be to say that she falls in love with her H, and that causes her to be motivated to work on the MR. However, I think this period of time varies with each case, and every WW has her own issues that must be resolved. That's not to say she can't work on them while the relationship progresses. See what I mean? It's like surgery, in some cases, and it takes time to cut away the cancer. Sometimes, treatment is required, and it takes time to completely heal. It's just not an overnight process.

I realize you are uncomfortable. All of this is tiring to you. Your NGS is screaming for you to settle back into your old accommodating patterns. Just understand something. If/When you do...….all her acts of disrespect returns with it. IDK how long you can give her time to work through her issues. There is no way to place a calendar date on things of this nature. IDK if she even realizes she has issues that need to be resolved. I really think IC could help her to identify some things in herself and how to work on them, and how to work with her spouse. In other words, she needs outside help. Depending on her level of waywardness (which stubbornness will be the main enemy) as to her willingness to seek help. Most couples do not enter into a relationship knowing one thing about how to make it work. Oh, they think they know, and most think that their MR will be different, yada, yada...…..but they are unprepared to deal with the day to day stuff that erodes the pipes to their loving feelings toward each other, and it starts breaking down. Becoming informed and getting the tools, is vital. Getting professional help to heal the issues that exist is smart, IMHO.

I apologize if I sound as if I'm rambling. I've had a lot of distraction since starting this post.