1) this was a list of reasons why I didnt want or need W back. Some were petty and liveable ( she was untidy- didnt do her share of the house work) and some were game changers (W does not love me and I deserve to be loved- she could just walk out of our M) . I got up to fifty points very quickly (now beyond 80). This helped me see that she wasnt as perfect as I actually thought and she has got faults (quite a lot).
2) this was a list of things that I contributed-to the decay of our M. All the points I came up with are now things for me to improve upon for me and to make me a better person for future R either with W (unlikely) or somebody else. I found that these points also could improve a lot to help build better stronger friendships too.
3) this was a list of positive things I did in the M and the good that I contributed. (Sometimes you need to blow your own trumpet). I realised that I was not the monster she had made me feel like and was able to see that non of my actions or inactions justified her acting this way or leaving and espaecially not for another man.
W is certainly not perfect even before becoming WW I saw my flaws so that I can work on them for myself-to make me a better me. I am not a bad person and actually have very good qualities and traits.
This was just something that helped me.
Me=32 W=29 R=12 yrs M=7 yrs BD 02/18/18 Dd=3 S=6 Other man confirmed 06/10/18
forgive me for trying to reply in a measured way. what I have been told is that W was resentful/anger while with me, but now without me is happy. In reflecting on our MR, there were definitely several ways in which I could have done better, been more attentive, acted more quickly on issues that bothered her. Did she tell me in a way I could understand, maybe/maybe not...was she willing to consult others to help us communicate our issues more effectively in order to move through her feelings of resent/anger, no.
In reply to Maika, I was happy in the marriage. I will say I was not completely happy, but I thought that throughout a marriage there would be natural ebbs and flows in feeling happy or not so I didn't ponder on it too much. Do I feel she was not a suitable partner for me, no I don't. I have the hardest time not believing that I ticked her off through not meeting her expectations, she tried to get her unhappiness through my thick head, I didn't listen and she gave up thinking I would never change. What is interesting to me is that for me personally I never got remotely close to feeling any kind of resentment towards her over the years we were together. I'm sure there were some things occasionally, but nothing at all that would ever rise to the level of my desire to vacate my vows and end our MR.
I'm sorry all...many times when I try to write how I'm feeling, I ramble and my words I feel are never good enough to convey what I'm trying to express. I marvel at folks like Maika, Steve, Stander, ACC, Sandi, etc who's comments are always so professional, excellent and flow so smoothly.
I feel so thankful to all of you who reply to me...I feel terrible that at times I feel so tougne tied in my attempts at reply. I loved her, I failed her, she couldn't take anymore and walked. Need to take some time and try to be kind to myself. To love someone so much, be SO dedicated to not failing a 2nd time and hear of her long list of supposed things I could not provide her AND her complete unwillingness to seek help for us...honestly that pain will last much longer than the BD.
1) this was a list of reasons why I didnt want or need W back. Some were petty and liveable ( she was untidy- didnt do her share of the house work) and some were game changers (W does not love me and I deserve to be loved- she could just walk out of our M) . I got up to fifty points very quickly (now beyond 80). This helped me see that she wasnt as perfect as I actually thought and she has got faults (quite a lot).
2) this was a list of things that I contributed-to the decay of our M. All the points I came up with are now things for me to improve upon for me and to make me a better person for future R either with W (unlikely) or somebody else. I found that these points also could improve a lot to help build better stronger friendships too.
3) this was a list of positive things I did in the M and the good that I contributed. (Sometimes you need to blow your own trumpet). I realised that I was not the monster she had made me feel like and was able to see that non of my actions or inactions justified her acting this way or leaving and espaecially not for another man.
W is certainly not perfect even before becoming WW I saw my flaws so that I can work on them for myself-to make me a better me. I am not a bad person and actually have very good qualities and traits.
This was just something that helped me.
Really good Idea. Homework for Me! Ill post my results on my thread, thanks RP
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
I will say I was not completely happy, but I thought that throughout a marriage there would be natural ebbs and flows in feeling happy or not so I didn't ponder on it too much. Do I feel she was not a suitable partner for me, no I don't. I have the hardest time not believing that I ticked her off through not meeting her expectations, she tried to get her unhappiness through my thick head, I didn't listen and she gave up thinking I would never change. What is interesting to me is that for me personally I never got remotely close to feeling any kind of resentment towards her over the years we were together.
Ok! I am going to challenge you on this because I don't buy it. I want you to honestly self-reflect, and even do the list that RP suggested. You say there are ebbs and flows - of course, but did you just let things slide that you didn't like? I am sure she did things you didn't appreciate, and she didn't meet your needs in some ways. I think you're being dismissive about your own personal needs and what you actually would've liked to see from her in the relationship. I can see your heart all over your message and I know you're hurting and that you're not able to objectively see what your marriage was and how she was in the marriage and contributed to its downfall.
Now about the listening thing - did she point blank tell you during the marriage you weren't listening to her? Or is this something she said after BD? Did she talk about her needs in circles?
Maybe you didn't have resentment, but explore the ebbs and flows more directly and see what you find. I don't want you to respond to this like right now. Go take a break from here, reflect and then come back in a day.
forgive me for trying to reply in a measured way. what I have been told is that W was resentful/anger while with me, but now without me is happy. In reflecting on our MR, there were definitely several ways in which I could have done better, been more attentive, acted more quickly on issues that bothered her. Did she tell me in a way I could understand, maybe/maybe not...was she willing to consult others to help us communicate our issues more effectively in order to move through her feelings of resent/anger, no.
In reply to Maika, I was happy in the marriage. I will say I was not completely happy, but I thought that throughout a marriage there would be natural ebbs and flows in feeling happy or not so I didn't ponder on it too much. Do I feel she was not a suitable partner for me, no I don't. I have the hardest time not believing that I ticked her off through not meeting her expectations, she tried to get her unhappiness through my thick head, I didn't listen and she gave up thinking I would never change. What is interesting to me is that for me personally I never got remotely close to feeling any kind of resentment towards her over the years we were together. I'm sure there were some things occasionally, but nothing at all that would ever rise to the level of my desire to vacate my vows and end our MR.
I'm sorry all...many times when I try to write how I'm feeling, I ramble and my words I feel are never good enough to convey what I'm trying to express. I marvel at folks like Maika, Steve, Stander, ACC, Sandi, etc who's comments are always so professional, excellent and flow so smoothly.
I feel so thankful to all of you who reply to me...I feel terrible that at times I feel so tougne tied in my attempts at reply. I loved her, I failed her, she couldn't take anymore and walked. Need to take some time and try to be kind to myself. To love someone so much, be SO dedicated to not failing a 2nd time and hear of her long list of supposed things I could not provide her AND her complete unwillingness to seek help for us...honestly that pain will last much longer than the BD.
"what I have been told is that W was resentful/anger while with me, but now without me is happy."
Remember, believe NOTHING she says. I am sure most of us have felt resentful and angry in our MR at times. But that doesn't mean it was that way in totality. Further, if she was miserable without you YOU WOULD NEVER KNOW THAT! She would never project that to you if she could help it, and certainly wouldn't say it.
ballast, you are too hard on yourself. Your comments and posts are fine. There are many times I go back and read my posts and think "wow, I could have worded that or conveyed that in a much clearer, more succinct way". None of us are perfect.
Hang in there brother, it will get better.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
B - As the LBS I think it is very easy for us to assume all the responsibility in the MR for what went wrong. I will say though that unless there was some sort of abuse, etc. that is simply just not the case. Own what you did wrong but please don't own any of what your W contributed. Your W may indicate that she tried but IMO unless you went to MC and she made it clear to you there were problems she didn't try because you had no idea there was anything wrong and you both did not try together.
I never in a million years thought my EW would have left me. 2 years ago I was her rock, she couldn't imagine her life without me and the kids, I was a great husband, provider, lover, etc. and now we are D'd. I will never understand but I do accept it.
Also realize that you could have been the perfect husband and this very well still could have happened to you. Beating yourself up and constantly analyzing what went wrong is an exhausting task. Like M suggested look at your MR holistically and without the love goggles on and I am sure you will realize things that you didn't like about your MR either. After my emotions subsided and I was able to get clarity it became apparent to me that there were many things that I didn't like but I tolerated.
My W, your W, M's W, S's W and all the other W's are not perfect spouses. We were not either
Your W may indicate that she tried but IMO unless you went to MC and she made it clear to you there were problems she didn't try because you had no idea there was anything wrong and you both did not try together.
A million times 'yes' to this!!! trying includes both people and anything else is complete bs.
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I never in a million years thought my EW would have left me. 2 years ago I was her rock, she couldn't imagine her life without me and the kids, I was a great husband, provider, lover, etc. and now we are D'd. I will never understand but I do accept it.
yes to this as well minus the D part for me. that's coming soon.
Maika, so I did some self reflection last night along with trying to get more sleep than I had the previous night. I'm not sure that what I came up with was resentment, more likely didn't like/appreciate. W was grumpy alot, perhaps due to the resentment/anger she had towards me. W was not flexible in her opinions. W did not like my mother, perhaps because she felt her a threat, although I would have always sided with my W and I thought she knew that. W wouldn't seek help for things she struggled with, also I don't think she appreciated the blessings that she had in her life. W only once at home post-baby can I recall her coming and kissing me, there was no hugging nor did she post-baby initiate any cuddling/sex. If I tried to, I was declined. When there was a task I was attempting to do around the house, if she became impatient or thought I could not do it, she would step in and take over instead of allowing me to continue. And I was constantly compared to the male members of her family. They were handy around the house whereas I was not. I think W felt she could not rely on me for stuff around the house, although her family members would say that's silly as I just had skills in different areas than them that were equally valuable. Bottom line I did not feel in her eyes I measured up to them even though I was learning from them skills for future use.
Listening...so I was fully attentive when she would talk to me. cell phone/tablet down, direct eye contact. W would say I didn't hear her OR we just weren't speaking the same language. W talked much about work and I was engaged in hearing her, asking her questions, etc. Many day to day topics were repeated BUT I think the key thing would have been if she could have just said to me "B, this issue is really important to me" I would have made it a priority as I would have known it was a priority to her. You can't talk about 100+ things as happens in the day to day of life and make all of them a priority. I just need to know "hey B, no crap this bugs the crap out of me and I need it taken care of ASAP".
Steve, yes even as I've been spinning in self-pity and blaming myself, I have continued to remind myself believe NOTHING. Also yes for whatever anger/resentment W may harbor towards me, she WAS happy at times. She was not miserable all the time I don't believe. And yes, for sure no way right now W would tell me anything other than she is happy as can be. The other rule of Never Give Up I've repeated to myself many times as well these last few days.
Joseph/Maika, there was no abuse, addiction, cheating, etc. I loved her, was loyal, dependable, provided her emotional support...I was a good, loyal, honorable, but imperfect man who always placed the needs of his W and family first. I can't say that she did not convey to me some things that bothered her, but as I say before I could not delineate the truly important ones from the lesser mundane ones. Since we separated we have had not a single phone call nor communication face to face regarding the issues that caused us to split. While I have learned some things from her they have all been via chat/email. She felt we were roommates and to be clear I don't disagree to an extent, but as a couple with a small child and both of us working I felt it more of a circumstance of where we were in our lives at that time as opposed to a permanent reflection of our relationship for the rest of our lives. If you Google for that you will find the internet is littered with tons of couples with young children expressing the same sentiment. Also when we were on vacations, we were MUCH better. Since separation W refused any kind of professional counseling/assistance and it has only been myself who has wanted to try to resolve/address our issues. Pre-separation we never had a communication about the need/desire for us to seek outside help either.
I think I was a great father, great provider, dependable/dedicated/loving husband who was imperfect. I was lazy at times, a procrastitnator, but if at ANY time W wanted/needed something done or to go here or there, I was ALWAYS agreeable to doing so. Post-baby I was not a great lover, but it had nothing to do with a loss of attraction for W. W did not initiate, was struggling with body image and seemed un-open to my advances. Again though on vacation, we were much better.
I guess the last thing to say is getting divorced once, I was able to more readily accept it as a life-mulligan. I saw the loss of the first as necessary for the beauty of the second that I felt beyond blessed to find. That I am now facing the possible loss of the second when specifically I wanted to be so dedicated to it's success AND I have such a beautiful D who's life will be forever impacted by it's failure...I am VERY hard on myself. To lose one marriage is one thing...to lose a second with an innocent child involved is quite another. I have had friends say "third time is the charm" but given each of my prior MRs wherein my W just basically decided "nope, don't want to be married anymore" the thought of EVER having another MR even though I would very much want to enjoy a lifetime love just seems too impossible and I worry that the rug will get pulled from under me again.
Thank you all very much for your continued interest and support that you provide me.
B - I know it is very difficult but there may not have been anything different you could have done. Maybe there were signs but maybe not. $hit happens all the time to good people you just have to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and keep moving forward. Attractive people get D'd, celebrities get D'd, the word D does not discriminate. I have just accepted that it is very much an individual thing and if in my EW heart she did not want to make it work and try then there was nothing I could have done.
Truthfully I just think that some people are not satisfied with just living. Some people are always chasing, not ready to just live the life of being married and raising children. Sure you can have date nights, maybe take a couples trip once a year or whenever but if that is your norm and your with someone who is no longer satisfied by that then what is next? You get married, you buy your first home, you have kids, you make some home improvements, you take some trips, maybe you buy a second home, you get involved with your kids and their activities, maybe you take some more trips, you get some hobbies, you have kids practices and school activities, etc. etc. etc. That is life......I just think for some people that routine gets boring over time so they start looking at what is next in their life. They start to wonder if that is all there is in life? So you could have done things perfectly but if your spouse thinks there is something else out there that is better, different, that shakes up the norm, that maybe brings them that excitement again, it gives them the feeling that there is more to life than just living or the feeling that they are no longer bored or that they still have life left in them to live.
I could be wrong but I think some people are just not satisfied, might never be satisfied, and it is all relatively to their position in life. I think that is why IMO D does not discriminate...money, trips, etc. might make life easier or give the perception of more fulfillment but to those people that have it eventually that becomes the norm as well and it just gets taken for granted.
Which to me further drives home the point of finding happiness within and I think in most of our situations the spouse that is leaving does not have it or is trying to find it.
