Hoosjim's 16th. Looks like we're piecing, folks.

[hoosjim]

Thanks for the details Jim. I have no science or even research behind this, so I guess I just WONDER... is there a difference for when a WAW, like I said before, dips her toes in the PA pond versus jumping in? I just really wonder. It was in large part in your WAW's head. Oh, for certain, she did the EA part of it but when it came to PA, she seems to have hesitated - at least for the most part. So, my wondering then is, do WAW's who don't really go through with it have a better chance of coming back? I just wonder.

I dont know if Sandi has ever addressed this aspect of the WW mindset or not. My own personal feeling, based on my own experience and on seeing other people's sitches unfold is that it is in fact harder to break off a relationship once it goes physical. I know there is a school of thought that EAs can be more dangerous because they are almost all "fantasy" and that once the A is consummated that the "fantasy" aspect of it goes out the window and it is less exciting/fulfilling, IDK. But i think there is alot to the idea that close, skin-to-skin contact can really create a physical bond between a man and woman, and that this is scientifically and "Chemically" provable with the oxytocin and all that. Also, once a WW has gone down that road, any inhibitions she may have had about doing so are then "gone" in a manner of thinking, and there is at that point much less of an aversion to "doing it again." I think this latter aspect is true for most people, men and women alike, with just about any sin. Once you do it you're like "well, i've already done it once..." In my own W's sitch, i don't think she went all the way down the road to intercourse... she kept too much of her pre-WW "good girl" mindset (buried though it was) as well as the fear of taking that final step, of disappointing her parents, of losing her kids, etc etc. There was also the risk of pregnancy, which i know she definitely feared, not having the option of terminating an unwanted pregnancy (she's catholic and the prospect of facing that is a big big issue with her-- she never even started BC until after we started reconciling with each other.)

Also, i am on record as believing that the more deeply my W got involved with OM, the harder it became for her to tear away from that relationship. Had she ended it at BD, when i first discovered it, i think she could have pulled away much more easily than she eventually did. Problem was, had she done so, there was no "us" to come back to at that point, and she likely still would have left me or at least found another OM. But, at any rate, yeah... it was pretty clear in her case that getting more intimately involved (There was a night out partying and later overnight in a hotel that did not involve intercourse but most likely involved some intimacy short of that and which, i believe, was what rekindled the relationship with OM after she had initially mad some efforts to distance herself.) Their relationship progressed from light flirting and musing on the phone about the possibility of a future relationship (what i overheard at the time of BD) to, several weeks later, my W in tears on phone to OM outside his bar crying "I just want to jump on you and run away with you and i know if i come in there i wont be able to leave." After that, it became, obviously, much harder for her to "break that spell". Interestingly, my W's memory is very foggy about that and about other episodes. She admits to them openly, now, but her recollection of the exact words and such is much less clear and sharp than mine is. I'll never forget hearing that. Which brings me to...

As for not knowing, I can really see both sides here. Part of me would really want to know while another part of me might not want to know. Do you NOT want to know? If you don't, I really don't see any issues with that. Thing is, if you do, and she is refusing to tell you - now there I have a problem. Is that where you are at? It almost sounds like it might be? If you do want to know and she won't tell you, what is up there? Beyond that, if you really want to know and she won't tell you - do you not have your answer?

I am torn about this. I still am somewhat "haunted", I guess, by some of these memories, and they are still an issue for me. Two weeks ago we were out running erands and i punched up the GPS to give us directions and just started blindly following them as i chatted with W. It ended up taking us right past OM's house! Neither of us said anything or acknowledged it (I was tempted to say something like "Hi OM!" laughingly or maybe snidely, IDK, while waving, but i refrained.) But it did bring up ugly feelings. Similarly, i had some unpleasant memories at the beach this week... it was our last family beach vacation that she left at the end of to go meet up with her GFs... and with OM... last july. I couldn't help thinking about that from time to time this year. Finally, when the anniversary of that trip came up on FB, one of her two GFs who she me there posted on her timeline a picture of them there last year and said "Oh, let's go back!" which, since i follow my W and we now have each others' FB accounts on our own phones I saw. That really bugged me, because of course this girl knows that my W saw OM on that trip. Grrrr.... Oh well, all things to talk about with the MC...