Affair, no feelings...is there hope? V

[44tries]

Oh, so there have been no more of her trying to keep you from seeing who she is texting? She doesn't try to hide it?

No, not since the theme park, which was the last day of our vacation. She has since not hidden anything about her phone and I have been with her most of the time, including sleeping since she had to give up the guest room for my family. She may or may not remain in the bed but she stayed last night after they left.

So my question is, when can I start showing any encouragement to work on the MR. Wait for her to explicitly go there? Or at least cut out all the back and forth securing her position stuff?

When you see authentic, freak'in change in her attitude & behavior. Not some head dreams you try to convince yourself. When she starts showing you respect. When you see her genuinely trying to do the right thing, and trying to reconcile the MR.

I'm assuming it will be an obvious difference,

There will be an obvious difference in what you are currently seeing in her. You will knows she is sincere, b/c she is willing to cooperate. She won't be playing these disrespectful games with you! Her attitude will be humble, warm, appreciative......and even giving. I dare say, she expects you to do all the giving in the relationship, rather than her. If her heart changes, then her unwillingness changes, too.

She is so stubborn about not wanting to seem too positive about anything/me. If she wants me close to her she tries the old "I'm cold" trick. Before my family arrived, she came to the bed a day early and was again making sure she clarified there was some reason she was sleeping there.

It is not stubbornness that makes her this way. It is her waywardness.

There are days she is pretty relaxed about having her guard down. She is definitely warmer, treating me better; more of the good, less of the bad.

Are there ever any days where she treats you all good with zero bad? Do you ever remember having a 24 hour period together, where there were no hints of bad?

Yes, there are days with all good and zero bad. And increasingly so. A big difference too is that when there is bad, and I have been consistent about not tolerating it, she will come and apologize. She cares about what I think and is willing to be the one to reach out and fix things. Because I'm not going to be the one to do it anymore and she knows it. Maybe she is just no longer sure how far she can push, but her apologies are genuine. She is interested in discussing her feelings and asking about mine and improving the relationship.

So while there are still times of stubbornness or disrespect, there are also times where she is humble and warm. It's a back and forth, but more of the latter as time goes. That's why I was asking if the difference would be instant or permanent. My observation that there is progress could be wrong if this is the case, because there are still times she reverts.

She is definitely more affectionate and started calling me pet names occasionally; her stubbornness about not showing positivity or 'giving me hope" has subsided a lot. But I will not let it fall back into being "together" without explicit discussion and commitment. I feel like we are getting close to where I feel it is time to force the issue. Again, I just don't know how to know when exactly is the time.