Can I really do this #4

[SteveLW]

AS & Steve,
Just to clarify. This was her ask.

I was kind of going on Sandi's advice and her convo that it would be almost impossible to do separately (financially only at this point)

I realize this is exerting an enormous amount of pressure for her to get back into the MR. I am not using it as an excuse to get her back in. I am merely stating that if she wants to relocate out of a city that she "hates" that at the present time, I could make that happen, but only if we were working together to make that happen. It would be easier, cleaner and cheaper if we would work together as a team to get this done. The other alternatives are that we remain in a city that she "hates". That she funds her own relocation. Either is only my problem as it relates to how we are going to co-parent if we S and D. I don't know how this all works since I've been employed since I was 14, but how does someone qualify to rent a property with no income? And yes, I realize "not my problem" except that if she can't end up moving, I have leased a place in another city, they it just gets uglier as far as custody, kids, schools, etc.

She did send me an email earlier stating she tried to set another mediation appointment and they cancelled/deleted that one as well. I didn't, but almost responded that "I think someone is trying to tell you something".

Just to recap. I know it is pressure. The job is a good opportunity for myself and my kids (W is of course considered if she is in the MR). How do I proceed with this?

The answer to your question is the answer to a question for you: Do you want to be with someone that only chose to remain with you to get out of a city that they hate?

[SteveLW]

Weekend update:

Mostly a quiet weekend. W is having some kind of "bug" she said for her health issues (hence the 4 hour nap on Thursday). She was on the couch most of the weekend, but did get outside for 45 minutes for a walk on Saturday. That knocked her out for the rest of the day and for Sunday as well.

We didn't talk much, watched a little tv together. I did some housework and the kids pitched in a ton so very proud of them! We got a lot done and I told them how much I appreciate them.

I did do a little bit more for my W this weekend due to the health issue to make her a little more comfortable. I would have done that for any house guest, so I didn't feel I was doing anything "wrong" in the db'ing sense.

Going to bed last night, I always reach my hand over to help her into bed. Bad back/neck issues and the bed is fairly high off of the ground. I just haven't gotten out of the habit for some reason, but she hasn't grabbed my hand for help in 2 months. Last night she did. Also, I always let her know when I am leaving in the morning and to have a good day. She usually responds with "you too". Today it was a full sentence "I hope you have a good day too".

Nothing major, nothing minor. I am just working on myself to get out of my own head. I have to constantly remind myself that there is nothing that I can do outside of db'ing that will wake her up. She has to wake up, get out of the fog, or whatever by herself. Unfortunately I think this is going to be a bit of a tough week. Slow at work due to the holiday and then of course Wednesday off for the holiday. What do we do as a family? We usually go to a friends home and watch the fireworks from their backyard with a nice backyard bbq party. REALLY don't want to do that yet as I think that would be way too much pressure on all of us. But what do we do? Anything? I guess time will tell. I will ask the kids what they would like and W as well.

W slept ok, but she looked exhausted when she got up this morning. I am working on my own stuff. Looking, hoping, praying and having faith that somehow WE can work together to bring our MR back together and be better than ever. I know this is way too soon to think like this, but how do you keep yourself from these thoughts?

JS, every sitch is different. And there are various levels of pursuit and pressure. For instance, in sitches where spouses are separated there is a big difference in sending a text or calling, and actually showing up where they live! Texts and phone calls require them to ACCEPT the text or call, and choose to respond (text back or answer the call). Showing up forces them to respond, either negatively or positively.

Same thing for those of us that were still living together and sleeping in the same bed. While the W has made a decision to leave the MR, she hasn't taken a huge step (sleeping elsewhere, moving out, etc). And therefore I think there are opportunities for small pressure or pursuit.

That sounds like where you guys are t. I know my sitch was similar to yours. She never left the MH or MBR. However, right after BD she lost interest in doing anything together or as a family. She tolerated the holidays to keep up appearances, but she did bow out of a NYE get together with some friends, I found out later because she was wanting to sing on the online karaoke app she sings on.

Slowly she started to come back around to doing things as a family, and even together. I would offer things with no expectations, and then be perfectly fine if she turned it down. Pressure? Maybe a bit. Pursuit? A little. But that is what the sitch called for.

So yes your W taking your help into bed, and responding more fully to you is definitely a step in the right direction. I'd not change much you are doing. Just make sure that a) If you do small pursuits to have no expectations and then be upbeat regardless of response b) make sure that if she does respond positively to be careful not to go into a full court press. BABY STEPS.

[Dtrmned]

Steve,
The answer to that question is a resounding "No". My heart, mind and soul want to keep my family and MR together. I do not want to be with someone who truly doesn't want to be with me. Especially if this is just for financial or relocation purposes. This is where I am confused. DB'ing is giving them time and space so they can think on their actions and decisions. It is also for me to GAL, make myself into the person I want to be, be the best parent I can be for our children and IF by some reason she realizes I am the "spouse only a fool would leave" that there is a chance for us to create a path and plan to begin a new and better MR. Tough to give space, time and not exert any pressure when this opportunity is very time sensitive and action will have to be taken quickly if WE would forward for our future.

[SteveLW]

Steve,
The answer to that question is a resounding "No". My heart, mind and soul want to keep my family and MR together. I do not want to be with someone who truly doesn't want to be with me. Especially if this is just for financial or relocation purposes. This is where I am confused. DB'ing is giving them time and space so they can think on their actions and decisions. It is also for me to GAL, make myself into the person I want to be, be the best parent I can be for our children and IF by some reason she realizes I am the "spouse only a fool would leave" that there is a chance for us to create a path and plan to begin a new and better MR. Tough to give space, time and not exert any pressure when this opportunity is very time sensitive and action will have to be taken quickly if WE would forward for our future.

JS I think you are mixing two different things. DBing is about making changes in yourself that REATTRACT your W back to you. But she comes back to because she likes the changes and wants to be with you.

Getting her to come back for any other reason risks the R being temporary. It is kind of like this:

The government passes a law that says "No spouse may divorce or leave their spouse except for a) Physical Abuse b) Adultery". You've committed either so by law now your W has to stay with you. This law takes years to work through the courts but 2 years later the SCOTUS says the law is unconstitutional and strikes it down. Your W W only staying because the law said she had to be, so she goes and files for divorce the next day.

Well, if she stays with you only to get out of the city she hates, what happens when she starts hating the new city? Or the new shine wears off of it? Or any other thing changes causing her to no longer feel the need to be there for the reason she originally felt?

See the difference? DBing might cause her to WANT to be with you. Moving to the new city might cause her to stay with you just to get out of the current city. Not the same thing.

[Dtrmned]

Steve, I totally agree with you and that is the issue.

I know I cannot believe anything she says and only half of what she does. Life is always a gamble and there are never any guarantees. I do see your point and I don't want her to stay just to get out of the city. Her seeing my desire to keep our family together gives her ample opportunity to try to take advantage of the situation. The part that gets me in all of this is that if she is so dead set about being done wouldn't she be gone? Moved out of the house? Moved out of our bedroom? Gotten a job? Something? Anything?

We are not fighting. We are cordial. I am, I believe, db'ing in the best way I can (definitely made some BAD mistakes along the way). AND I do believe she is seeing the changes. The R pressure and now the relocation pressure are HUGE as unfortunately I would need to get this done in he next 45 days to get this kids into a new school prior to the new school year. If not, I would not like the delay, but would do ALL that I can to give her the time and space she needs to maybe realize WE are worth fighting for.

[Dtrmned]

More confused today than anything.
Still amazingly lonely in this world and lost.
Got home yesterday, did my run, it was a little hot and we had the doors/windows open. D was watching tv so I just got my book and read in the front room (which was cooler and quieter). W saw what I was doing, went upstairs and got her book and came down and layed down in the sofa in the same room and read her book as well. Usually, lately, she would not have done this. She even asked a couple of questions prior and during (nothing major, "is it cooler in here?" " Can't handle the kids and the tv anymore", etc. But just casual convo. I answered briefly and went back to my book.

Just concerned about the July 4th issue. Its very slow at work this week so I have to try to make myself busy and will definitely not be here all day or at all tomorrow.

Awoke in the middle of the night to find her and I were slightly entangled (still a pillow in between for her back). Enjoyed the moment and moved on.

Said our goodbye's this morning and here we are.

Limbo land!!!

[arsh18]

I have had similar interactions and behavior from WAH as he continues to proceed with mediation process so it was very confusing. The advise I got was to do your own thing because WAS behaves like this when there is low confrontation. It does not mean R just that they are comfy around LBS a little bit so it is still good. Limbo is a blessing in disguise believe me. In my sitch which is so close to an end I would so prefer to be on limbo, time is your friend keep reminding yourself that. Just learn to love the limbo, this is the time where you are actually in control of your sitch and the WAW is indecisive and in turmoil

[Dtrmned]

Limbo is the gift of time. I have had that stated to me many times on this board. I very much dislike limbo land, but the alternative at this point is unimaginable. My W doesn't really want to deal with anything at all. A very small issue with my D that we took care of quickly got a response when it was over of "I wish I could just have one day without any drama". Ummm I don't think that is going to happen if we S and eventually D. If that happens, there unfortunately will be much drama ahead! Already just trying to keep myself busy for today. I'll be out in a couple of hours and headed home for the day and tomorrow. Thursday and Friday will be very similar with the work load so I am very nervous. Usually, it is when we are together for long periods of time that for some reason she feels pressured (I'm not saying a word) just by my presence in our home.

I am not following her like a puppy dog or initiating any conversations for small talk. I am truly treating her like a house guest (weird house guest that sleeps in the same bed with me so a little different on that end!).

I don't know how to approach her about doing anything together with the kids for the 4th. Should I ask her? Should I just plan something? I don't really want to go to the party with friends as we have known them all for over a decade and they only know us as a couple and a family. I don't know if she would want to "fake" it through that or what. I just want it to be a good day for our kids and of course would love for all of us to spend the day together. Even if it was just a small bbq in the backyard watching fireworks by ourselves. That would be perfect!

I just don't know.

[arsh18]

I feel you should just go by yourself with the kids. I have stopped going to any event as family, WAH does not want to join but even I feel pretending is too much pressure. If she knows you already have the invite just say you are going with the kids , if she wants to join she will let you know. You should not cancel your plans if she decides to not come

[SteveLW]

I'd make plans for you and the kids to attend the friends' thing. Leave it open to her if she goes or not. It will be good for the kids to be with other kids and doing kids things!

JS, also, please understand that the road to R is sometimes confusing. That is why GAL, 180s and detachment consistently is a must! Don't let your guard down. Very few WAWs/WWs wake up one morning and go "I was wrong! I want to R now!" Changing your mind on something is hard! Once a human makes a declaration that becomes their marching orders. To change them is to change who we are. So WAWs/WWs have to change slowly. You are seeing some of the sings of those subtle changes, but don't let it change what you are doing. Keep on keeping on.